Test Drove the 488 Today. Cancelled my Order, Sticking to my 458

Well, after reading the same thing over and over and over I know 2 things that the 488 has turbos and some people don't like.

 

I too love N/A engines but this is not true. In order to up the pressure reliably you need differente internals, different turbos, different mapping etc. Okay, revs may be a more "noble" way of power increase, but turbocharging is not just a matter of increasing the boost. Look at what lenghts Ferrari went in order to make the 488 (and the Cali T) feel N/A. Lots of research there. By just adding boost you get more power, but also more lag, worse emissions and drivability. That's not the Ferrari way. Things are way more complicated than that!

 

I am interested in the potential that more advanced valve systems can increase HP and reduce internal friction losses. Hydronic or pneumatic or electromagnetic valve mechanisms.

I'd like to see Ferrari exploit this kind of technology to improve performance

 

I find the 458 louder. Not only that, but it also has that intoxicating high pitched shriek instead of the 430's bark.

 

That too is an over-simplification. A turbo engine is not a N/A plus turbos. Each of these concepts has its own complexities. A high compression, high revving N/A engine is just as hard to build, if not harder.

 

Excellent post. I doubt it will sink in, though.

 

While you have some valid points, there is more to it than chasing McLaren down. They had to do it while dipping below 4 litres, which is the punitive taxation threshold in China and other easter markets. Plus the emission regulations. Otherwise they would have to go 5 litres V8-V10. As lovely as that sounds to us, it would pose many problems for the company.

 

Oh, I'm not suggesting it's all down to McLaren. I'd guess the two main drivers are McLaren and China. But McLaren suddenly blasting onto the scene from nowhere and blowing them into the weeds as far as pure performance is concerned as well as getting so close to Ferrari in most other areas on their very first go must be driving the Italians out of their minds. Who could have predicted such a sterling effort on their first go. And there's simply no way Ferrari could let that go unchallenged.

 

Actually in 1997 the 355 was reving to 8500+ RPM and only a handful of Japs (Hondas, RX7s) could rev that high. Factory Peugeot GTis were at least 1000 RPM lower (we are not talking race cars here). Ferraris have always been high revving cars.

 

I don't think that statement holds water. A direct consequence of the IPO, of being a stand alone car company, is that they no longer shelter under Fiats emissions umbrella like Lamborghini can with the VW group. There is no question turbo is the only route to try and meet these requirements and it also no doubt explains why McLaren chose the turbo route, or certainly one major reason.

That McLaren gave Ferrari a shock, for sure, but if they could have stayed N/A, they would have.

 

They'd not have been able to keep up with McLaren in a straight line if they hadn't gone turbo. China's tax penalties means they couldn't just keep increasing capacity (not to mention the limitations of that approach) and they're unlikely to have gone V10 given that that is clearly a Lamborghini trademark (not in the literal sense, of course) and the long established V8/V12 Ferrari hierarchy. You do have a point about the IPO, though. Although, presumably, if that is the driver then the V12 has to go that way as well. I guess we'll see soon enough.

As for McLaren, my guess is they just wanted a metric whereby they could categorically claim superiority over Ferrari. Remember, McLaren measures 'best' with a spreadsheet. And I don't think the depth of the enmity between these two companies can be overestimated.

 

No, not really.

 

I agree, there were other reasons which pointed them towards turbo, but the emissions made it a no brainer. And yes, there is every chance the V12 will go turbo. I understand they are currently looking at it but no decision has been made, although the logic seems irrefutable.

 

FIAT has its trademark camless MultiAir technology, but Ferrari hates it as it is ineffective at high RPM. On the other hand, hydro-pneumatic valves a la F1 are not required below 12K RPM and they are also a huge maintenance headache.

 

Agree on the over simplification bit, that's deliberate. But a turbo engine less the forced induction kit is basically the same machine as an NA albeit with limitations on compression ratios (to prevent pre-detonation) and it needs stronger reciprocating components and block to reliably handle the higher mean effective pressures. I wouldn't presume to know which one is harder to design, build, and tune but I'd wager it's the one with the higher number of components.

 

If you want a 458 with much more power, you add a turbo on it's engine, then it would become a monster, and still sounds screaming (basically sounds the same with non turbo 458). But forget about emissions and economy, hugging tree, or green blah blah blah.
488 is built from scratch, the idea is to have an engine with 600-700hp, but the emission must be low, fuel economy must be better, must be able to hug tree, and green (Ferrari shouldn't be involved in these tree-humping-stuff). This can only be achieved with a smaller, spec down engine, depending on the turbo to get the hp range. You can make 2L Toyota to have 600hp with turbocharged, let alone Ferrari's 3.9L
This is not something new, Audi for example, has been doing this for long time. They took off the 3.2L engine, replaced it with 2.0L engine turbocharged. Mercedes too, dropping the size from 5.5L to 4.5L turbocharged, BMW too.
But IMO, if we really care about emission, fuel economy, humping trees, green blah blah blah, we shouldn't buy Ferrari in the first place. And if Ferrari really cares about these, they should go electric or at least turbo diesel (but don't use VW's cat).

 

Mike458spyder. Well said...if you are a 'tree hugger', buy a Prius (and then accept that the ecological process of making/disposing of the batteries is more polluting than modern day reciprocating engines!!). I love the hypocrisy in the liberal mindset....epic.

 

I will admit I never agree with your claimed facts on engines with turbos are detuned cheap engines but I do agree here that we buy a Ferrari not caring about the environment basically etc. These are super cars, lets polute and have a beast drive the street! lol

 

Not every engine with turbo, but the 488's engine without the turbo is a smaller and normal spec down engine, unlike the highly tuned in 458 for example.

 

It's not that simple. It depends on the engineering briefing, but most often than not, high performance N/A engines are more difficult to build.

 

Again, show us some proof. What makes it "normal spec", and what defines "normal spec"? You really think it uses inferior parts compared to a 458 engine, or is a less stressed engine? What do you think happens if you bump your average 2.0 Camry engine to 600 hp? You think it will last? Do you think the 488 engine run less valve spring pressure, weaker studs or con rods, or a less advanced valve train than the 458? Do you think it uses a less complicated combustion chamber design or Hyper-eutectic pistons? Show us proof that it is so normal as you say, or stop saying it.

 

Hola

Enviado desde mi GT-I8550E mediante Tapatalk

 

I would actually be on the opposite side and say the 488 engine is more highly tuned and built in a manner to be able to better handle turbos than a 458 can. And I would assume Ferrari has not even pushed the 488 engine to the max. I am sure they left room for software updates that even boost hp a little bit with the turbos. Remember the 12c did not start at over 600 hp, but through software updates the boost went up. Even look at the 650s etc, it is all the same engine basically with more power. I would not be surprised if a stock 488 pushes up to 700hp in the future and the speciale version is upwards of 720hp and lighter.

 

That would be a shame. I have nothing against turbos as such and no issue with their implementation on the 488, but there's something about the V12 that makes me thing it should remain a big pure brute of an engine. It's the nature of the beast.

 

True, but other manufacturers have successfully adopted turbo on the V12 and you would have to bet Ferrari will do a better job.