Header welded and back on. Ticking noise still there | FerrariChat
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Header welded and back on. Ticking noise still there

Discussion in '348/355' started by carwhisperer, Dec 30, 2015.

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  1. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2014
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    Brian
    #1 carwhisperer, Dec 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So I diagnosed a leak in my header on my 2.7 F355 with a home made smoke tester. I welded up the leak, which was at the air injection for cylinder 4, retested, reconstructed the heat shield to make it semi removable, and reinstalled. I did all this because I had a ticking sound that wouldn't show itself when cold, but once the oil temp got up a bit it would start. It's pretty loud, sounds more high pitched metallic than a thud or puff of any kind. I thought it might be a lifter too, of course.

    Sadly, the noise is still there, pretty much the same as I remember it before the surgery. It goes away when you get to about 2500rpm. I rigged up a bicycle brake to use as a remote throttle so I could rev the engine when I'm under the car or standing around it. Using a stethiscope it sounds like it is coming from the header itself. Not the head, but the header. While using the remote throttle and under the car the noise does completely disappear when I rev it.

    Yes it might be a lifter but I just don't think so. Not sure what I should do next. I try to fix everything myself but I might take it to a local shop that services F cars. I have met the owner and bought some parts from him. Seems like a great guy. I don't think I would pay him to work on it but I will be willing to pay him to listen to it.
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  2. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    #2 INTMD8, Dec 30, 2015
    How about smoke machine while the exhaust is bolted up? Maybe you have a leak right at the head.

    I think it would be audible cold as well however.
     
  3. Shootfighter65

    Shootfighter65 Formula 3

    May 13, 2014
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    Randy..alluneedtokno
    #3 Shootfighter65, Dec 30, 2015
    Buy a new set of headers. Trying to repair the old ones is an exercise in futility. Mine failed and of course when I revved it up the ticking disappeared. Replace the stock crap headers
     
  4. tr512

    tr512 Formula 3

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    #4 tr512, Dec 30, 2015
    Brian
    I will check I might have a good used set of headers.
     
  5. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    #5 gothspeed, Dec 31, 2015
    Were the gaskets replaced?
     
  6. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #6 carwhisperer, Dec 31, 2015
    I did first smoke test with the header bolted up. I didn't see any leaks there and I did replace the gaskets. I would be interested in trying a different set of headers.

    Also, I was wondering what would happen if I warm it to where the noise starts and then unplug the injectors one at a time to see if the noise goes away. In the absence of fuel maybe the exhaust pulse won't be strong enough to make the sound?
     
  7. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

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    #7 cf355, Dec 31, 2015
    did you smoke test the header with the heat shields off to verify no other leaks?
     
  8. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

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    #8 cf355, Dec 31, 2015
    if it were me I would take the header off the car (remove those heat shields) and plug the openings.....put the header in a water bath and run compressed air from my compressor through it at 10-20 lbs pressure.....that way you can see any and all imperfections in the header....same way you test a radiator.
     
  9. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    #9 SoCal1, Dec 31, 2015
    I pull a vacuum on them, finds everything
     
  10. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #10 carwhisperer, Dec 31, 2015
    Yes I did.
     
  11. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #11 carwhisperer, Dec 31, 2015
    That's a good idea!
     
  12. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #12 carwhisperer, Dec 31, 2015
    I dropped by Corfee Car Care in Sacramento. Eric Corfee, currently my favorite human other than my daughter, listened to it and said he is pretty sure it is one or more lifters. He said that, considering the car has sat for 4 years, that if it were his car he would drive it like he stole it, and maybe the lifter would free itself up. He also suggested adding a quart of ATF to the oil and checking the oil pressure regulators, or whatever they're called, one on the oil tank and one on the bottom of the engine.
     
  13. Shootfighter65

    Shootfighter65 Formula 3

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    #13 Shootfighter65, Dec 31, 2015
    I'm still confused why your putting so much work into the failure prone stock headers? The metal is to thin to fix and it's going to develop another failure.
     
  14. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

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    #14 cf355, Dec 31, 2015
    in the 90's certain domestic manufacturers provided a tool (open the valve) to pump up their hydraulic lifters....pumped up the lifters with kerosene & then you installed them. this also cleaned the lifters out and the motor was run for a brief period and the motor oil changed and you were good to go.
    I recall at the time the special additives to quiet noisy hydraulic lifters at the local automotive stores were nothing more than kerosene as well (added the additive and ran the motor for 5 minutes prior to an oil change and then flushed with new oil and filter). not sure if kerosene or ATF oil is the right way to go but certainly this was an old school repair to clean & pump up hydraulic lifters.
     
  15. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

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    #15 cf355, Dec 31, 2015
    I agree that header is kind of scary looking but at this time to use it as a diagnosis tool is not a bad idea.
    To weld the header and install it temporarily will help the OP to determine in a matter of hours if he has only a header problem or a motor problem or both so he does not waste time and money on repairs and parts that may not be needed.

    As for header replacement later on....this is the OP decision.
     
  16. carwhisperer

    carwhisperer Formula Junior

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    #16 carwhisperer, Jan 1, 2016
    It's interesting because the driver side has clearly been rebuilt with new tubes. I think the pass side was partially rebuilt. It looks like they left one stock tube, which has deformation. It's not too bad and I couldn't find a leak there.

    When I stopped by, Eric was doing an engine out on a 355 and had a couple 360's in for service and some other f cars. He works on them all the time so his opinion carries some weight. He saw the headers and heard the noise and was certain it was a lifter.


    But I haven't completely ruled the header out as the culprit. Right now the center console is out, as I'm looking for the reason the turn signals aren't working, but I think I'll try more diagnosis, maybe unplugging injectors, when that's done
     
  17. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3

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    #17 97 Spider, Jan 1, 2016
    I can't imagine unplugging injectors will tell you anything what so ever. If its a lifter is doesn't matter if the cylinder is firing or not it will be the same. As the exhaust side on things I don't think there would be a huge amount of difference in pressure the exhaust stroke of the piston if it's firing or not.. Maybe but I don't think it's going to tell you anything.

    Honestly you should think about new headers no matter what you find, those scabed up, band aided, piles of junk need dropped in the recycling bin. :)
     

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