Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5 | Page 55 | FerrariChat
Buy

Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Oct 25, 2015.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Page 55 of 643
  1. Michael Call

    Michael Call Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 6, 2008
    1,072
    S.L.C. Utah
    Full Name:
    Michael D. Call
    #1351 Michael Call, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If you read the specs it's easy to explain why. They list the fuel system for the test car as "Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection". The posted numbers in the test (except for the top speed noted with an *. *=European Model) are not on par for a DD because the test results are for an FI car.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1352 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Great catch Mike, I confess I totally missed that one all these years!

    So in fact, for the performance figures, instead of a carburetted 455 bhp Countach QV, they used a Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection 420 bhp Countach QV. Makes sense why the 179 mph achieved by a DD (as below) only came to 166 mph with the FI.

    I guess that's the difference in induction system, cams and exhaust?

    Can't believe I missed that one all these years, another mystery resolved, thank you.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  3. EarlyCat

    EarlyCat Moderator
    Moderator

    Mar 9, 2005
    10,004
    Shot gun shack n another prt of the World GS KW KY
    #1353 EarlyCat, Jan 4, 2016
    Some of the 13 mph difference could be attributed to the wing.
     
  4. Autosport

    Autosport Karting

    May 25, 2013
    211
    #1354 Autosport, Jan 4, 2016
    Or, did they test the DD as seen on the cover of the magazine where they say "this Lamborghini" ? Is it possible they did not have access to a Euro Countach specification sheet and decided to simply use the USA spec sheet that was available ?

    http://graphic-server.com/cgi-bin/backissues.cgi?mid/CD198604.JPG
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1355 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    That's my point!

    The 166 mph was not a DD at all, as noticed by Mike.

    It was a Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection 420 bhp Countach QV as stated on the stats.

    C&D Editor Don Sherman admitted to me personally years ago that they did this sort of thing all the time, the photo-car was not necessarily the test car. In this case they didn't bother to get a DD, thinking the FI was "the same thing".

    Clearly, its not.
     
  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1356 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1357 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1358 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Looking at the DGMs Marmirolli gave me, I'm surprised that the DD was already Homologated with the Italian Transportation Authority as early as January the 8th 1985!

    Of course they based this on an amendment of the December 31st 1979 version (which would be for the LP400S S2 I think).
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. Ellagirl

    Ellagirl F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2014
    2,736
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Nils johnsen
    #1359 Ellagirl, Jan 4, 2016
    Or as the saying goes,if you cant dassle them with brilliance,baffle them with bull&%$#@it
    As halves of the crap people responds with,comments like butt dyno, really? Altough your responses i do respect.
     
  10. Autosport

    Autosport Karting

    May 25, 2013
    211
    #1360 Autosport, Jan 4, 2016
    Let me start by saying. I was not there so I don't know what car they used. But I would think it's more likely they used the car in all the pictures and then posted a US spec sheet rather than test a car, take no pictures of it being tested "although I know as you said it is done that way sometimes" but I just don't see them not taking pictures of the actual test car since it is a COUNTACH !! Maybe they use stock file photos sometimes when testing a Taurus or Malibu but not a Countach. Just a guess on my part !
     
  11. Ellagirl

    Ellagirl F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2014
    2,736
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Nils johnsen
    #1361 Ellagirl, Jan 4, 2016
    4.9 to 60 ? Really ,could be wrong but i recall a fi test doing it in 5.1 in car and driver, shure matches the 35 hp difference, kinda the diff between a 911s and non s.
     
  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1362 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    :) well, a thread that's inviting a comparison is going to get what you are getting, and in keeping with your original post, you have to let people share their opinions, and accept them for what they are.

    However, I've known many of the people posting for many years, and to suggest that they are lying in terms of their experience with all the cars is not cool, because I happen to know that the experience they assert is true.

    Having said that, we are learning a lot about both variants from the thread, you just have to read between the lines.

    For my part, I have nothing new to offer in this debate, I have owned multiples of every variant the factory produced from LP400 to 25th Anniversario, and all I will say is I like them all for different reasons, as I have said many times before.
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1363 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    C&D actually did what I describe a few years earlier substituting Alberto Silvera's Countach (which they did NOT photograph but tested) for the Countach that became Ford Engineer Dave Gamret's car. The magazines were laid-back in those days!
     
  14. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1364 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's that beautiful DD as photographed by C&D.

    They did use it for the acceleration tests, but perhaps not for the top speed tests. Who knows?

    I do know that DDs usually did 178 to 181 mph in standrad trim, so 166 as coupled with the FI data is good reason to think an FI was used by the C&D staff, as confirmed to me they sometimes did, by Editor Sherman.

    As an aside, my preference is to start positive appreciation threads and stay away from the "this variant is better" or "the best" debate. I like to focus on the attributes that make a variant special, without the need to slight, confront or challenge the others. When one is secure & happy with what you own, you feel no need to doubt what another owns, and to be honest, you don't really care. I also think John said it best in the other thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144415324-post83.html
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. Michael Call

    Michael Call Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 6, 2008
    1,072
    S.L.C. Utah
    Full Name:
    Michael D. Call
    #1365 Michael Call, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The test actually does depict a Federalized car also:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1366 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    There's the answer, makes sense. This looks to be a factory USA-spec FI Countach.
     
  17. Autosport

    Autosport Karting

    May 25, 2013
    211
    #1367 Autosport, Jan 4, 2016
    I totally agree with you about keeping things positive. When I first saw that tread started DD versus FI I knew immediately there would be a lot of negativity on that forum. It has been gone over many many times on this web site before on various threads. The problem starts when someone makes disparaging statements against another variant like "watered down version of a Countach" for example ! Maybe it makes people feel better, I don't know ? I think there are 2 things most would agree with on this matter. One variant has more horse power and thus is faster and one variant has a little better drivability and reliability. So what's better ,,,,chocolate or vanilla ? There is no CORRECT answer, it all comes down to personal preference. I don't drive my car all that much so when I do I just want it to start easily every time so I can just go. I open the door, reach in and turn the key, I don't even need to climb inside until I'm ready to go. It has NEVER EVER not started on the first try. As far as the power issue goes, there is plenty for what I do. I don't need the extra ponies of the DD because I am not smoking the tires or trying to hit 175 mph in it. At this stage in my life I like my FI. Now,,,,,, 30 years ago, it would have been a DD for me without a doubt. I was into power and that's all that mattered to me back then. They both have pros and cons. As you have said, you can't beat the music those carbs make under a hard acceleration, it's unreal ! I do believe at the end of the day a DD will be worth more than a comparable FI because these are muscle cars, Super Cars and power usually rules in these scenario's. The DD was the pinnacle for power in the history of the Countach and I think it will capture a premium for that, how much, I don't know ? My guess is that 97% of the people that see these cars in public have no idea about the fuel delivery system differences between the 2 variants, they just know it's a Countach and that's all that really matters.
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1368 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    Good post, I agree.
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1369 joe sackey, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1370 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1371 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Its worth noting that their testing was based on a standard exhaust system, as indeed was the specification used by the cars tested by the magazines when new
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2007
    4,061
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Raymond S.
    #1372 raymondQV, Jan 5, 2016
    I think the height of the hood was given by the rear mirror in the cabin, the gap is about the size of the mirror.
    When you install a rear wing you can't see anything anymore...
     
  23. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1373 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This helps illustrate your point
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1374 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As does this, somewhat
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
    57,525
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    #1375 joe sackey, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This definitely does
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
Page 55 of 643

Share This Page