F-16 crash in Arizona

not much news about the pilot:

News from The Associated Press

 

Still searching for the crash site last I heard, which means no emergency locator beacon was activated.

 

Hope the pilot got out, the plane can be replaced.

 

Still no word on the pilot(s) condition.

F-16 from Luke Air Force Base crashes in Arizona

 

Crash site found, no word on the pilot.
Hope for the best.

 

Looks like the pilot did not make it.

Luke Air Force Base: Remains found at site of F-16 crash in Arizona

 

A shame. G-LOC has caused the loss of several 4th generation fighters, but we will not know until the accident board finishes its investigation.

 

Is there any specific training that pilots receive to recognize onset of G-LOC?

 

Is there any way to diagnose G-LOC post-mortem? instrumentation?

 

The Gamblers are my old squadron. Memorial service was tonight.

Sadly, not the first, nor the last to be lost due to GLOC.

We train extensively in G "countermeasures" but the F-16, when at high speed, has an incredibly rapid g onset capability that has to be anticipated through training, and, unfortunately, to a degree, by experience. It's the latter that results in most of our mishaps.

If tapes get recovered intact, they may reveal if this was in fact a G related mishap. IP tapes and his report can also narrow that possibilty pretty accurately. BFM has been historically the highest risk training activity for students with respect to GLOC. There are many instances where GLOC occurs and we don't lose pilots, simply because they recover in time to avoid a ground impact.

Ever since I was the Air Force's only F-16 Pilot-Physician, with one if my primary roles being to advocate for human factors improvements in the weapon system, and because I was often the lead consultant for most of the Viper HF-related fatalities, I have been pushing for Auto-GCAS for the Viper fleet. My pleas fell on deaf ears for years, to all but the drivers who knew me and trusted what I knew about the real impact the system would have on saving lives and the non-existent negative impact it would have on combat capability. Well, it's coming to the fleet now. Something like 20 years late. Still, I'm glad it's finally happening. This type of mishap really needs to be a thing of the past. The technology is robust and has been proven for years. It's no longer sound for the Air Force to say it's not cost effective.

 

In a body alone, no. In a body in a crash field, sometimes.

Determining with 100% certainty that a GLOC occurred, sometimes, yes.

Most of the time a variety of data, such as flight path, g data prior to impact, communications (or lack of responses), hand and leg fracture patterns that represent limb positioning at impact, etc, can paint a very accurate picture of what happened. During a safety investigation board, we also strive to rule out everything else as possible causes as well. This results in a Holmesian conclusion which in most cases can stand up to scrutiny from any angle.

 

When I as participating in airshows I became friends with one of the Golden Centennairs, the solo pilot. He was flying a F-5 and would make his entrance to the show by flying parallel to the show line and then perform a 360 on after burner within the confines of the field. He admitted to pulling 7.5 G most of the way around in the maneuver. He also admitted that he wasn't wearing a G Suit and would grey out about half way through the turn and black out just before he completed it. He was able somehow to straighten out and wake up as he was climbing away from the field. He couldn't (or wouldn't )wear a G Suit because it "interfered with his flying". I thought that it was quite bizarre that he did this without physical problems. My concerns were well founded because I heard that he busted his medical the following year. I have been up to 5G for a short time and it isn't something that I could do for very long or very often.

 

7.5g for a full circle in an F-5 seat (which I think is a 13 degree seat) and without a g-suit, is a real ball buster for most anyone. That said, everyone adapts to g differently based on body anthropomorphics, training, vagal tone, countermeasures technique, recency and frequency of exposure, etc. When I was flight testing in the UK for the Typhoon program, I could tolerate 9g no suit for 30 seconds easily, a minute would have been a different story, and with my full coverage custom Beauforts g-suit just about indefinitely with no strain. But I was ramped up exposure wise because thats basically all I did...pull g in the jet, pull g in the 'fuge.

 

Bob- I have several F-16 sorties and the g onset is prodigious and can be debilitating, even after they went to the faster acting G-suit system. With a weapons school patch and being a WSO, it was sport to try and black me out. Being short and with relatively high blood pressure, it never worked. Tall guys with low blood pressure had the most problems with g forces until they were well trained on straining and other techniques for resisting g. Funny thing is, the biggest complainers our teams were A-10 pilots, several of whom were quite tall. Good rule of thumb is take the top number on your blood pressure and divide by 20 and that is what you can take in g forces without a g suit. That is why upper body strength from weight lifting helped and running had to be limited to about 3 miles 3 times a week. Too much running and you lowered your blood pressure enough to compromise g tolerance.

 

And possibly one 5th generation as well. One of the flight-test F-22s crashed near Edwards, and it was believed that the pilot may have suffered G-LOC.

 

On G's. I have a DVD on the Blue Angels. Found it interesting they don't wear G-suits.

 

Interesting. My old friend, the late Larry Blumer, was a P-38 pilot and he said that he had to do a lot of grunting and tensing up when he was in action. Not much dog fighting but hard pull-ups and tight turns when strafing. Non of the WW2 fighter pilots had G-Suits and they pulled a lot of G.

 

It would be tougher in combat VS air show. They explain on the DVD that the Angels know the routine and know the G's are coming. The reason for no suit it interferes with their precision. Something about the balloons in the suit deflating/inflating can move their arms and interfere with the controls.

 

That is what my RCAF friend said.I remember from my reading about the aerial combat in the war and talking to my old fighter pilot friends that they were pretty well exhausted after a fight.

 

I can imagine air combat as being brutal in those days. I did talk with a few WWII vets at Oshkosh back in 98. Also read a lot about the air war.

 

The Blues fly very precise manuevers often resting their forearms on their leg whiel working the stick. G-suit inflation was determined to interfere with the precise stick handling.

 

The lack of g suits for Blue Angels Pilots came under close scrutiny after the sad fatality of Kevin Davis in 2007. Details here.....

Navy says Blue Angel pilot didn't tense muscles before crash | Military | pilotonline.com


The Red Arrows fatality at Bournemouth in the UK was also I believe attributed to G-LOC.