is the bubble due to burst?

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or.............
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Am I getting this right,or is an Fchat guy with 12000 posts having a laugh at our expense?? Some years ago,when I was buying a used car,the owner had great delight in telling me that it was fitted with 'double barrel websters'. I think he was more into shotguns than cars,but it made me smile !

 

Glad I am not the only one with exact the same thought....

Ciao
Oscar

 

That was my first reaction as well. I have to assume that he is having some fun with it. My car has triple webers.
View attachment Triple Webers.pdf

 

I think he was busting my chops, and rightly so, for saying "Webber" instead of Weber. Fair enough, I've made that mistake before and probably will again. Maybe my problem is that I worked at PaineWebber for 10 years.

 

Since I don't follow auction prices carefully I was looking at the other listing on the Scottsdale auction and noticed that 62 of the 78 lots sold for at or below the published " expected range".

Is this typical or is it more than that?

I realize that auction houses want to get as much as they can, but are they typically this far off in estimating the selling price and is this typical or is it indicating a softening of the market?

 

RM lot 227 '53 212 Inter Vignale Cpe 1.8-2.2M estimate sold 1M
I'd say softening if not melted!

Jack

 

I was shocked by that, I wonder what Mr. M has to say about that?

 

Buyer was contemplating a healthy immediate profit from a dealer.

 

We can all spin which ever way we want to read the results and it makes no difference at all to the market. The market is maturing and buyers are becoming more educated and this is good. We had a Daytona that made near enough a world record and other Ferrari's that seems good value. The difference is simple quality of cars.
Cars with 9 owners, painted issues and possible clocking are never going to achieve a great price or even market correct price and as I have said before, apart from the headline acts that the houses have 90 % or the cars are substandard and cheap for a reason.
Most of the great cars are sold by Private treaty or through high end classic car dealers and this is fact. Auctions are a place to try and sell a sub standard car for a market correct price and buyers and becoming more selective and this is correct.
Would any one on these forum sites want to buy a car with a dark to unclear past.
I can only speak for the market in the UK but it is very strong, and a lot of high end grade A cars are being bought.

 

Strictly personally I think it is an ugly car, you can do no historic event with it, and there are few on the market for sometimes. I would not even pay half million for this...

 

Yeah, the design doesn't work for me at all! There are ugly cars that draw you in because they are purposeful or aggressive. To me this is plain ugly...

 

It seems a lot of dealers are having recored months:

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Tom Hartley
‏@TomHartleySnr
Reflecting on January @tomhartleycars & yes I can confirm a "RECORD" month by our team ?tho well deserved by all🏃#&yeswhatafirm👍

 

Here is the first feedback article on the recent Arizona Auctions:

https://news.classiccars.com/mckeel-hagerty-talks-mona-lisa-cars-mustache-muscle/

Another interesting observation- 308s taking up the slack from 288s. Entry and mid-levels still robust.

 

Entry and mid-levels still robust.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps those folks didn't get the memo yet? I think that there will be many cars hitting the market in the weeks to come.

 

Many of you are not going to like this comment... but as long as he doesn't say the opposite of what is true.

If he said accident free and it was knowingly in an accident then thats a problem

If he says here is a car. It is on you to figure out the story.

 

The 212 Inter Vignale Coupé #0285 EU was the "steal of the week".
It needs a full restoration which will easily cost another 800 K $.

Generally, there has been a market correction of 15 to 20 percent last weekend in Scottsdale (not talking about the 166 MM Berlinetta Touring and the 330 GTC Speciale).

Marcel Massini

 

It would be the duty of a proper auction house to convince consignors to be realistic. It is usually the consignor/seller that is totally far off and way too greedy.

Marcel Massini

 

Marcel,

I fully understand your comments of the correction of 15 to 20 percent , However I found the Enzo, also the Daytona and the F40 to name a few were also near enough world records for these cars, given their mileage and condition, The 80's cars seem to be gathering momentum at the moment. I would appreciate your comments.

 

Mr. M.

This is a generation thing. Not sure if the same people who are currently paying top $$$ for some of the recent hypercars will still be around in 20 years or so and by that time have developed further interest in the older/earlier Ferraris as well. How many Enzo and LF buyer's are owners of a 250 Lusso or a 250 GT Coupé PF or 250 GTE?

Marcel Massini

 

Marcel thank you for the informative reply.

 

Yes all true. I was listening to the radio the other day and there was a study where they gave out coffee mugs to half of a group and then had the half of the group without the mugs try to buy the mugs from the ones who were given them.. The "owners" of the mugs valued them much more highly than what the folks who didn't get the mugs in the first place... Human nature...

But I am also sure that the auction house I'm plays along a bit too, since, if the consignor doesn't see a "big enough" number as an estimate, he isn't going to offer the car for sale either... No cars consigned equals no sales so I'm sure there is a kabuki dance of sorts going on there too.

 

Check out the Mecum auction results for Monterey. The Miami vice TR has been expunged from the results. Bidding reached 600k+ first rodeo. down to 470 on the last run.

 

Do you not think that younger buyers, who haven't experienced a price correction, are naturally attracted to newer cars, so they are still selling ok? (it's a "New paradigm"...)
Older, more experienced buyers, and dealers, like older cars, but have seen it all before and are now holding back?

When the news filters through to the younger buyers that it's not a one-way bet, then I'd expect the newer cars to also soften pretty quickly.

I say that as someone who will suffer 'on paper' but will still have the cars, which were bought at good prices, for their intended purpose. If i was in it solely for money, then I'd be bailing quickly now.