Countdown to FF facelift reveal?

brian you shld back off and apologize to jaz. from post 77 on you are completely unfounded. Jaz has owned a few Ferraris and brings a balanced perspective. I care about what jaz thinks/says. You've bought one FF and it wasn't at full msrp so don't make it out like you are a complete believer in the FF is worth every cent Ferrari asked for it. If you believed that you wld have written a 400k check and not a 200k one.

 

Nonsense

 

Exactly

 

Balanced perspective. How so? Apologize. Maybe ... for what exactly? I'm not the one being negative about the FF, the V12, the Pinanfarina design, or the price ... on the FF forum. It's really getting old, that line.

It seem that you assume too much. I do believe in the FF at sticker, yes. The depreciation is not proof of a high sticker. Nor are the sales numbers. And why buy new when the perfect spec is avail for 30% off at 14 months old and 700 miles? I looked for 3 months and got the car I wanted, just like anyone should do, new or used. Why is anyone complaining about the cars MSRP, just get a used one if it's too much. I paid over 250, some good ones now are under 190. So order it new or buy it used, yet who cares if you love driving it? But stop whining. Childish.

Bottom line the FF is what is it. If you don't like it, get another car. Complaining about the price is pathetic. Wanting a V8 is ignorant. And I don't care if you have 10,000 posts, if you want a V8 TT in the car you're clueless.

It's really the ignorance and attitude of the FF Haters that's the problem IMO. The FF is a great machine and in 2010-2011 they put everything they could into the thing. It was something very new, and it runs rings around the 240,000-ish Cali T, and is almost an F12. It's priced as it's priced, and used ones are cheap because they forced people to buy it and many were not that interested, so depreciation is fairly normal for a car. Look I'm not on the Cali subforum bashing that car. Sure I think it's overpriced and not attractive, not cool at all. Yet to go there would be as stupid as some people here are being in spending a lot of time trashing this model.

Thus my post ... if you don't like the car, don't buy it. You're on the wrong forum IMO. This is the countdown thread, not the "I hate the FF and I hope it's cheaper and a V8" thread.

 

These aren't facts, this is just your view.

With the current FF "package" Ferrari is only addressing a very small market segment. For a wider segment price and design are the limitations. To reach higher sales volumens (and the latest sales volumes are not satisfying (!!)) Ferrari has to change these two parameters.

The design will be changed fundamentally with the next FF generation in approx. 2019. Until then it is recommendable for Ferrari to launch a less expensive FF model version next to the V12 flagship. And for that reason a version with a V8 tt engine makes a lot of sense.

And why a less expensive FF with a V8 tt engine should not be a FF is not clear to me. Think about, there are a lot of potential buyers with the requirement of having the choice to configure their car on their personal taste.

 

Seems like a lot of theory and not much understanding of the FF as a driver. Do you own an FF?

Do you like twin turbo engines in general?

My understanding is that a TT8 is not happening at this time and maybe never, we shall see. I'm cynically all for it, as it helps my car. But I honestly hope they have more sense than that.


If Ferrari wants to make a cheaper FF they will, but people who want the FF for less need only go shopping right now, and for the last 18 months. if you think it's ugly and you want a cheaper TT8 I have no idea why you're here.

 

Your aggressiveness is annoying!

You're not the only one here who likes the FF. I'm also a big fan of the FF, therefore be a little bit more tolerant to other opinions.

And now open your eyes, Ferrari has a sales problem with the current FF. If they continue as you think, soon, there will be no longer a 2+2 seater in the Ferrari product portfolio.

Your enthusiasm in honor, as a FF product manager you're useless.

 

Studying this thread from a point of view where I bought new and am more concerned about European invasion going on at the moment than the price of Ferraris I can see Brain's point albeit presented a little too forcefully for some.

To say 'the FF is ugly' is not a fact. In ones own opinion it may be you think it ugly, that's ones own privilege. To say it is overpriced is confusing. My Rolex keeps crappy time and cost a fortune......overpriced? Of course it is but who cares.......The stuff my other half wears around her neck and on her ears is found in the ground in Africa.....overpriced?.....bloody right it is but who cares. Eating out in London twice a week would pay the mortgage for a house up north....overpriced......dam right it is.
My point is why join a club then complain about the decor and entry fee.
Celebrate the FF for breaking new ground so convincingly rather than finding fault with design, concept and price.
I respect all on here who have an opinion, keep em coming, can't stand people with no opinions.......boring.

 

You're not the product manager either. I find all this conjecture aggressive and annoying, so there ! I'm annoyed .. poor me. lol

In a couple weeks we will see the new FF. If you think they will throw owners under the bus or kill the integrity of the brand, that's naive in my opinion.


And you didn't answer the questions I asked. Have some honor and do it.


Ferrari will be fine, you all can get some rest. Worse than armchair managers and quarterbacks who never played. lol

 

Ferrari has to earn money with its products, that alone ensures the continued existence of the brand and the wonderful products.

Regarding the FF, I am one who loves the design of the FF, very special, very noticeable, very brave, very extravagant. The problem is there are not enough of people like me. Therefore, and in terms of a successful product line, we have to accept the criticism regarding the design, the FF design simply responds to a too narrow target group. What's the problem to accept this?

Regarding the price, it is the same. What's the problem to accept that in terms of a successful product placement the high price restricts the potential target market unnecessarily additionally? Maybe a cheaper V8 tt version would strengthen the market position of the V12 flagship. The mechanism of a favorable base model you can find in many successful product lines.

 

They will do a V8TT in the FF, I'm certain of it. Not really to do with price, more to do with access to markets where larger engines attract very high taxes. Quite logical and sensible. Ferrari know what they're doing - doesn't make them perfect but they are good.

Don't want to get too involved in others' arguments save to say that I can sympathise somewhat with both viewpoints but couldn't agree that a TT FF is not an FF. To keep a platform going with so few sales is costly and if the TT widens the market and keeps the FF in production, I'm all for it.

It's similar to the Porsche Cayenne argument (and that also started out with a VW Diesel engine!) But Porsche love the Cayenne, why wouldn't they? And it's helped them build some particularly brilliant cars since.

I know it can get frustrating to have people turn up on a forum and criticise a car you love and own, but it's a forum not an owners club. I personally would be a bit bored without differing points of view, even poorly thought through ones or ones stated in the style of 'pseudo-fact' by people who have never even seen the car in question (talking generically not specifically about people or comments here).

Anyhow, it's Sunday. Have fun everyone - it's supposed to be a day of rest after all!

 

I don't mind criticism of the car, it's the entitled attitude of some. As if some kid in Geveva knows what to do better than Ferrari? The FF was made for a certain demand, not for everyone.

"Ugly" and "overpriced" = why are you here?

Ferrari will be fine, net profits are up and they will always make a car like this. They're around what 7000 a year and going to 9000? If they go over 10,000 they have to make a 4 cyl turbo. lol That will probably be overpriced too, It's a Ferrari.

 

Brian, nobody is arguing or objecting your points as everyone on here has a right to express their opinion and thoughts. Some of yours are good and valid!

The issue which is clear over the last 80+ postings is your way of expressing that opinion and attacking others in rather aggressive manner....it is not even healthy banter any longer, it's become a very personal attack - look how you write and your tone tone towards others. One can express and disagree in a gentlemanly manner; people will not engage/respond/respect you and you will only marginalise yourself by such attitude and tone.

FWIW, I bought an FF second-hand knowing the replacement/update was eminent and preferred to wait to take the depreciation hit on the new one as opposed to both a current model and then the replacement/updated one - the car is a marvel and at the same time is hideous (to me) especially that I have it parked next to my F12 which is TM and mine from new - regardless I drive my FF every day, every where, and I love everything about the way it drives and handles as well as many other great qualities except it's looks. I'm not wrong in my opinion it's my right.

Just because someone doesn't own an FF (maybe because it is ugly) doesn't mean they don't have a right to express their negative opinion on this thread or any other re the FF

 

I'll be in Cernobbio and confident we won't be dissapointed with the V12 GT.

Regarding current FF and this thread stop being concerned about depreciation not a problem.

The FF as not been produced in serious numbers, is the first Ferrari 4WD so will start to appreciate in value within a couple of years.

I am on my second FF nothing else in terms of drive comes close?

 

Hi Agpl

I'm interested to know more about what your factory friend saw ?

Is it very different than current FF? Or a mild facelift ?

Any design similarities with 488?

Cheers

 

Just to reiterate, I wrote this a few days back and I will know the details 100% tomorrow for sure, but this is what is highly likely:


Four Rear Tail lights
20mm lower rear roofline with adjusted rear hatch/glass angle
Facelift to front and rear bumpers
Restyled headlamps
Four wheel steer
8 speed gearbox
Restyled seats
Restyled dash
New infotainment
Circa 700 BHP

According to my contact who saw the car last week, it's a very nice restyle.

 

Firstly, you are correct, I have been around the brand for a long time and whilst I own the F12, I have only driven the FF, albeit both in the UK and at the Lapland winter proving grounds.

I note you are UK based, in fact London, and for me that is a very important consideration, as, unlike many of both our European friends and certainly US cousins, our roads are both more constricted, especially in the country, and also have to handle more traffic. Consequently size really does matter and whilst both are big cars, the FF really is BIG and feels it, the more so when driven in the UK. Simply put the US was the birthplace of big cars, indeed big everything, and consequently has facilities to match and cope, whereas we have come at it from the other end of the spectrum, and it shows in our parking, roads, access etc. So, with your location in mind the F12 starts with this important advantage.

For looks, there is only one answer. The f12 is pretty unanimously acclaimed as one of the best looking Ferraris for a long while. Correctly specced, it is a truly stunning car. The FF is divisive but I have yet to hear anyone say it is even close to the equal of the F12.

For performance, whilst the FF is not so far short, as a consequence of its greater bulk and weight, it certainly feels the less eager and whilst, for what it is, it handles exceptionally well, the F12 is the real deal in this department. It is also the smaller car physically and seemingly shrinks even more when driven. I found the FF started as a BIG car and even when driving it, was still a BIG car.

For practicality, clearly the FF has it. Amazingly good rear seats and loads of carrying capacity. That said, the F12 is not at all mean in this department, especially when you consider its performance and competitors. As I said if you drive to the slopes a lot, the FF shines and then the AWD is a major advantage.

Depreciation. FF has not been a access in this area, despite its virtues. The possibility the F12 might prove to be not only the last production n/a V12 front engined 2 seat Ferrari, a bookend to where it all began, but also designed by Pinifarina, might be a future benefit, whereas no Ferrari 2+2 has ever triumphed in the appreciation stakes.

If your life includes the occasional track day, here there really is no contest.

In short, if I lived in Europe and more than occasionally drove in the snow, perhaps owning a ski chalet, the FF would be my choice. Living in the UK, the advantages of the FF are really less applicable, and coming back to where I started, size really does matter.

To top it off, it is probably the best production car Ferrari has ever made, even Chris Harris ranking it above the Speciale as Ferraris true 5 star car, quite an acclamation.

I hope this helps

 

brian you are a lost cause. its ok for you to buy a used car but its not ok for jaz to say he wld like a smaller motor for less money. Not sure what the difference is that you see between those 2 things. As for myself, I paid FULL msrp and I am entitled to have and express any opinion I want.

also I don't know where you learned math or logic, but depreciation is only a function of MSRP. Its a very basic formula called percentage change and the starting number is important. Are you a teenager?

 

Tim, you explained my feelings on the FF very well. Thank you.

Brian, if Ferrari sells a V8tt option for the FF, it will be an FF. Because Ferrari said so.

Redcaruser says it very very well. He along with others have said things I find easy to agree with. I would add Bentley successfully added a V8 to their Continental GT line up. And I am sure Ferrari is very aware of this. I would imagine if Ferrari is going to sell a V8 variant of the FF, they will find a way to visually differentiate the V12 as the higher version. I think you should just add the words "for you" to your feeling on what an FF is or isn't. Then its just your opinion, to which you are entitled. I have a feeling a lot of angst would be avoided if you just stated it as such. I can tell you as near fact- I know this from some people on the inside- they know they priced the FF too high, at least initially. They have been trying to walk it back ever since but they don't discount at Ferrari. Instead they add content and keep the price about the same.

My opinion is I hope they make the car more visually appealing and a bit less small feeling when driven. That's my hope and it comes as my being a long time fan of Ferrari.

As a point of information, I've enjoyed reading everyone's views. Thank you all.

 

Well said Daniel

 

You say " I don't mind criticism of the car " Yet you lash out and insult everyone who does ? you're a Hypocrite

 

They "forced" people to buy it? what the FF are you talking about?

 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .....

 

Yeh I was so bewildered by that comment I didn't even bother. he is clearly confused. he's actually arguing with and against himself.