is the bubble due to burst?

Foot soldier, from the results last weekend regarding the 80,s cars many were world records and demand was great. The way you are writing is that the younger guys, these people are in there 40's, not children playing the Xbox. Buyers are not stupid, and this really frustrates that people think that anyone buying a car now must be mad, this debate has been going on now for the last 8 years and if I had listened to any of the views then I would not have been fortunate enough to buy my collection that I have now. Buy what you love and in 10 years it will be irrelevant what price you paid today.

 

+1 - there is a lot of new money out there and they buy what they want and see as their dream cars. A Mercedes from the 1930s or Ferrari from the 1950s probably wont have any relevance nor desire when you were born in 1978 or 1982. A Lamborghini Countach or Ferrari F40 on the other hand will. Comparatively these cars now seem expensive but then I would imagine those that are over 70 will tell stories about how "I coulda bought a GTO or any Ferrari for $7k in 1968 but ra ra ra and now they are many millions of $$$".

Its just fashion and a lot of these guys will be buying long-term others speculating and who knows what mix but as many have alluded to buy for the love and the amount paid is immaterial. Especially because some Gen X's have a lot of money to spend and whether the prices go up, down or sideways, over time they will always rise. Unless we run out of gas or cars become culturally unethical or illegal in which case we are all screwed lol....

 

Well said..there is an adage in the art world "buy what you love" - that way whatever way the price goes, you'll always be happy. I've seen a disturbing trend of folks that don't own these cars (like myself), yet find pleasure in tearing down the high values we see now (not like myself.)

I have too many friends and associates that own these excellent cars, I find no joy in trying to prognosticate their values negatively. What is the point of that exercise? It only makes you look petty and envious. Instead, celebrate the fortune and appreciation of these marvelous machines and be happy for those that do own them. It makes communal drives and meetups all the more special. If the price goes down or stagnates, so what? It doesn't make the cars any less enjoyable to *drive.* It seems the ones that obsess over prices are the ones that don't own them in the first place, a very paradoxical situation.

Cheers

 

BradWilliams,

could you share with us your thoughts if Pokemon car'd's are in a bubble too?

I know you might not own Pokemon cards, and you may never plan to get into Pokemon cards in the future..so like your current situation with Ferrari cars, you are in the same exact position for this question.

I personally don't care about Pokemon cards, but I know you enjoy talking about things you don't have a stake in so this was also another reason you would be perfect for this question.

Perhaps you might have threads in Pokemon card collector forums devoted to letting those collectors know of perhaps an impending correction?

 

+1 well done sir.

 

There are still many great bargains around.

I really like the '60's Ferraris, and was always an admirer of the Lussos, 330GTC even a 250GTE I would have been proud to own. I could have bought at least a 365 queen mary or 250GTE, even a Miura at 100k... but I didn't. Am I bummed out that those are out of my realm now, most probably forever? You bet.
However. I was also always a big fan of the 456, and I did not omit to snap one of those up. You can probably guess how easy I will ever let that one go.

 

paul, pokemon cards are overvalued? you are really going to upset me. wld you advise me to sell my Arabian horses first or my dutch tulips? I really think my US subprime mortgages are going to rebound so id like to keep those and sell the really speculative stuff first. So wld you say first I sell the tulips, then the horses, and then tulips, and then the Ferraris? or shld I feed the tulips to the horses?

How about some CDS on DB?

 

Paul, I don't think that you'll get a response. BradWilliams strikes me more as a diehard Beanie Babies and Cabbage Patch Kids sort of speculator.

 

hold on Sherpa - id stay away from cabbage patch kids - I had lunch today with a slick investment banker who said his firm will gladly sell CDS on them!

 

Meh, those guys are always long on the Cabbage Patch Kids. What kind of premiums would he give me on Cabbage Patch CDS?

 

LMAO!!

 

good question - ill have him call you first thing tmrw AM

 

Just a little feedback from Paris, again the same story, I spent yesterday at Retro and the quality of cars offered is shocking, the spread between grade A and the rest is widening.
Dealers offering very poor examples and the reason... Lack of quality cars, people not willing to sell the right cars, I heard this from most dealers at the show. However there were some fantastic examples offered as well but these were top money, factory restored cars were the top money, and some fantastic specialist restorations as well. There was a lack Grade A original cars, I saw 2 f40's both being sold as original, both painted and very poor examples. Show was extremely busy and mood was extremely buoyant.
What really shocked me was how many years in advance restoration companies are booked for work, many were 2 to 3 years now for full restorations.

 

interesting feed back, thanks for posting it.

 

I went long on POGS. Gonna pay-off real soon.

 

Mostly agree. While age demographics have a significant impact on which era of cars rise or fall, there are Tier A collectible/blue-chip cars that crosses generations. For instance, there are 60s and 90s cars that I would like to experience/own. Yet both eras are on either side of my formative years. I just think that these eras are sweet spots in automotive history.

 

FerrariChat PSA
All you need to know about Bradwilliams (his namesake, not that he *is* this comedian)

Keep in mind I've offered BradWillaims fair warning twice and gave him an out, but he leaves me no choice as he continues to denigrate fellow Ferrari owners.

1) Mocks Ferrari owners by saying real enthusiats keep their cars long term, yet he flips his TR and 550 as quickly as he can.

2) Laments the high prices of Ferrari, doesn't buy them even if prices are below market.

3) Wishes Ferrari owners ruin. When called out on this says people are trolling

4) Holds the position that we are in a bubble ... for five long years

5) Says he can't wait for a crash in prices, but then the crash will ruin the hobby for enthusiasts like him

6) Says the run up in prices are mostly due to fraud, can't provide one iota of evidence. When called out on this, says people are trolling

7) Hates owners and buyers, calls them pigs for 'talking' up prices, but says the value of his 550 going to 140K when he wants to flip one.

8) Asks me to moves the conversation to PM, asks a moderator to block me on PM.

9) Complains that the run up value makes cars unfair for enthusiasts, when asked what those cars are, keeps it secret.

10) Says real enthusiasts don't worry about the value of their cars,
all he talks about is the value of these cars all day.


Bradwilliams, ...don't forget these words of wisdom you yourself said five years ago, what happened since then that you've become one of the 'losers'?" (your word from 5 years ago, not mine)

 

Paul, I truly appreciate your attention to detail in your posts. You're a real asset to the Fchat community.

 

Thank you sherpa, I hope this helps people the next time Bradwilliams denigrates owners, they simply can post this link and let other people make up their mind on BradWilliams 'credibility'

Cheers

 

I needed you when I was in grad school to help me with the citations and footnotes on all of my papers.

 

hahahaha.

I just hope Bradwilliams stops being bi-polar and choose which philosophy he wants to live by and stick to it.

He's espoused everyone of this 10 points, but always acts diametrically opposed to them.

1) Be happy for other owners regardless of how valuable their cars are (or how 'high' or 'low' they pay)
2) Buy cars because you love them, that way whatever direction the price goes, you'll always be happy.
3) On the flip side, don't be so hung up on the 'high' price of other people's cars, if you don't plan to acquire a Pokemon card, what's it to you if one is worth 100K?
3) Don't troll others (let alone for 5 years), after all who spends the bulk of their time putting down the value of the possessions of others?
4) Enjoy driving these cars and not obsesses over their value (or lack thereof)
5) If you are going to flip these cars, that's fine - but don't criticize others for doing the same.
6) Feel free to post your opinion, but don't try to ban others for also posting their opposing opinion.
7) Don't call Ferrari owners pigs, non-enthusiasts or greedy for buying or selling these cars (at whatever price)
8) Post only substantiated claims with evidence, not empty musings or unfounded accusations
9) If you love Ferrari, appreciate their perceived value (even if they are lofty) can your wife/gf ever be is 'too valuable'?
10) Above all be honest with yourself

 

its simple, when someone gets a new Ferrari the right thing to do is congratulate them.

 

"Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler"
-Albert Einstein

Thank you ttforcefed.

 

Well said!

 

A lot of us here share your sentiment, Paul.