Predicted FF bottom for early used ones?

I am value guy. Fascinated by discrepancies,trends and incongruent values. Within product lines, brands, the world in general. And I think the FF has held its value represented by asking prices well. But for the first time yesterday when I looked on cars.com and car gurus.com the asking price distribution had 16 FFs under 199k. The bulk of those in the 165-180 were 2012-2013, a single 2014 from high end dealer and four from Ferrari dealers. And the earlier post suggested those with special access can go even cheaper.

The Cali ( of which I have one) is also at risk perhaps more so- except the appeal at a certain price point goes wider. Ferrari clearly has applied significant pressure to maintain the Cali's value with special financial programs and other tools.

When Ferrari bottlenecks production creating scarcity it do so for a reason. But on the backend they will hurt all of our cars, and their brand value as a car manufacturer with increased numbers of production. Even Ferrari would be tarnished by such a change.

 

It is pretty obvious reading these threads and trying to analyse the cross pond differences that we have two distinctly different market places.

In the US it would seem a good percentage of new and late model purchases are done via lease or long term low deposit schemes which suggests the decision to purchase is often the result of readily available cheap money which obviously has its own attraction. The inevitable result is a flood of cars returning to the market when the real threat on ones wallet becomes acute. Most deals were done in 2012/2013
In the UK the majority of purchasers buy as if to keep the car until 'they' decide to change rather than being encouraged/forced to by the pending demise of the lease deal. Hence fewer cars on the market. New FFs sold since 2011 = 220, currently on the market used 22.

Different world, nothing to do with ones wealth or position just market attitudes.

 

Your Fanboy devotion to the FF is getting tiresome.
You seem to be on a mission to singlehandedly try to maintain residual values by browbeating everyone who doesn't like the FF into believing they are the artist equivalent of an anencephalic Neanderthal.

You have made it clear you think the FF is the bees knees...only about 4 dozen times or so...okay...even us Neanderthals get that.
I think the new one looks better, at least in the current pictures.
I'll skip the FF, as have many. That doesn't mean I hate PF, and eat Viagras like they are M&Ms, wear a flatbill Yankees hat, and a "wife-beater" shirt on my way to a dinner out at McDonalds.

I'll stick with my F12 and 458 for now...and will look into the Lusso in the future.

 

The Viagra thing was interesting. Not sure what being an artist has to do with needing or not needing Viagra. It's pointless to argue the obvious so I guess personal attacks are the default. I get he's claiming I have no taste, but what's with claiming artists are testosterone laden manly men? We have one prominent Fchatter who clearly is, but it's not exactly the stereotype. I hang with REAL men, ARTISTS! Lol

FF is an amazing car. Every owner I've spoken with or heard online agrees. But to deny the design of the hind quarters is polarizing if daft, head in the sand. I don't think a Mondial owner would deny that design isn't universally loved either. PF produces more beautiful designs than anyone, but they're not all out of the park home runs.

 

+1

 

Andrew I don't disagree with you - this is an example of a thread that tarnishes the spirit of the board unfort:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/boxers-tr-m/512005-50k-trs-our-near-future.html

the poster clearly states he has no intention of every buying a TR irrespective of price.

 

Well said

 

brian you come off as incredibly defensive with these posts. no one is telling you not to love ur FF but piper is spot on. And the market sets the prices, so much in fact that Ferrari had to reduce the sticker prices on these cars and then offer crazy LEASE prices. With the lusso we will see how they sell and that ultimately will illustrate whether its a car with a lot of demand or not. F12s are much higher demand then FFs, and its reflected in the sticker and the secondary market. If the FF was prettier by what most Ferrari buyers consider pretty, it wld have sold better and the secondary market with be much stronger. The 612 was not well received when it came out and it took about 10 yrs for people to come around. Is it possible in 2022 people come around and fall in love with the FF, yes its possible. But right now 4 years into its life its still a polarizing car from an aesthetic perspective. From a driving perspective I literally only no one guy who was underwhelmed with his. The guy also owns an f40, lusso and a bunch of other awesome cars so his opinion has merit. As ive said in many posts, if I had 200k to spend on a car I was going to drive a lot the toughest decision is FF vs 458.

wrt to the lusso/FF, my eyes don't see enough of a difference to hate one and love the other. to me its very much along the 360/430 and 550/575 comparisons. For example wld be hard to understand someone say they hate the 360 but love the 430.

 

Brian, have to agree with the fellows above. But I get it you really love the FF. Please do me one big favor- do not call the new car "Lusso" by itself. Please call it "GTC4" or "GTC4Lusso" because to me "Lusso" = PF's most beautiful design ever.

FWIW, I agree with Piper that the GTC4 styling would have been better received. To debate with you phallic styling- you realize the FF also has the same massively long front end right? When we had one many friends and family laughed at that! Because I have such a fascination for cars I didn't really pay attention or care- at least at first. Anyway, the point is, its cool to say you think they got it right the first time. Everyone has their opinion. To my eyes the FF front end actually looks longer. I am sure if we measured them we would find they are real close or maybe even the same- Im sure they are doing some styling tricks- but I appreciate the changes. That's just me.

So the funny thing re: ttforcefed's point- I see a big difference between 360/430 (I am in the minority and I appreciate the 430's more muscular appearance); 550/575 (I prefer the 550's cleaner appearance- a real masterpiece from PF IMHO); I never liked the FF but the GTC4 hits the right notes for me. Its cool. We are all here because we all passionate about and love Ferrari.

Forza!

 

Hey Bob, i think you have great taste and also seem like a great guy

 

John, back at you, sir. I feel a little guilty hearing what a nice guy I am with a quote of me firing one across Brian's bow for his multi-insult yesterday. I always mean well. But that did make me a tad snippy this AM

 

I understand

 

As someone who has a wife who LOVES the FF, but it's currently outside my budget, I greatly appreciate this thread. There is a bottom for every car that it becomes more valuable as parts than it does as a driver.... And for anything 348 and newer, that bottom hits around $50-55k it seems.... And that its on cars 15+ years old. The average 430 still hangs out above $100k. So I'd think it safe to say you have at least a decade before the FF gets down to less than $100k.

Which sucks for me because I'd rather be in the market for one much sooner

 

Just for added perspective, I've seen a few examples come across Manheim with 40-50k miles asking around $150k. Most times you can get away with offering 5 to maybe 10 percent off MMR, but with the current inventory, It wouldn't surprise me if a car like this could be had for $125k. I agree in principle that they're not going below $100k for a very long time, just an insane value already and I have to believe they'll keep moving as they drop below $150k asking for a few years. Even long term financing would probably keep up with depreciation so it's a matter of managing risk, add a warranty or keep a slush fund for maintenance. Then again, for all this trouble, FFS would probably throw a crazy lease option at you for a higher miles example. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think you need to wait a decade.

I was ask earlier by someone why I would be the target audience for the FF when I'm usually in around the 7 year mark. It's usually around that point that models hit about 60% depreciation and the curve shallows drastically for a while. The FF got there a bit sooner, at least compared to 2012 stickers which were inflated with options that were gratis in later years. So the question is, would you want to put another 20k miles on a 40k mile FF and then try to sell it. Lease.

 

Great perspective Bob. I hadn't considered leasing honestly, but you make a great case for it. I might have to run some numbers on it. Thanks!

 

If FFS will lease a used FF with 15-50k that's a great idea.

 

If they won't, someone else will, or exotic financing will get the payment down there too. But then you're dealing with 20% down and moving it when you're done. More hassle, but ultimately probably the same out of pocket as a lease.

 

Many will do it open ended, that's not any help. Premier, etc.

 

I think you missed the point again.

 

Eric,

The fact that you could go away, serve the this country and make possible all these comments from those here with all these respective sorted viewpoints, and then come home to depreciated pricing that has made F car ownership more possible for you, is one of G-d's ways of taking care of you for your sacrifice.

Funny how this world works sometimes-

Thank you for your service, and I, like you are a 4 seat F car enthusiast and find this thread very relevant. Those of us who do have commented. And those who don't, can move on, but should realize their option to do so is made possible by people like you...

 

I was still on the lease. You're not hard to follow, apparently I am.

 

Those are beautiful cars, as is the FF in the right build. Only some people on this forum don't seem to get it. The only reason not to get it, visually, is you don't appreciate the feminine curves and implied lines. Or the build is dumb. Or you're looking at a photo (even of a great build) from the side, which can be very flat and weird.

Here in LA it's a hit with everyone, and when I tell people some think it's ugly their head almost comes off with the side tilt.

I don't really care about the market, I'm enjoying all my cars as intended.

 

Congrats. You just set a record for making my ignore list. Buh bye.

 

I just read this thread and find it sad that there are some here who would disparage someone (like me) who's annual income may be less than the cost of a used FF. I plan on purchasing one within the next year and threads like this are quite informative to someone like me. I don't envy or disparage someone who can have a "This Ferrari" and a "That Ferrari" and a "The Other Ferrari" in their garage. More power to you. We are here to talk about topics related to the FF that are of interest to us, not to be disparaged because we don't have as much money as some on here. Does it make you happy to be like that to others?

Anyway, I love the FF and for someone like me it's more about what the car will cost me to own rather than the actual purchase price of the car. Depreciation is a hugely interesting topic because it directly affects the cost to me, and I can better plan my budget. If I buy at 180 and expect it to be 120 in 2 years, that is as important to know as if I buy at 200 and it will be worth 180 in 2 years (hypothetically, of course).

One can be passionate about this car AND mindful of how much it will cost as well.

 

Well said my friend and I concur with your thoughts