have the computer cars upped tech rates on others?

Everyone understands that you pay for what you get and you get what you pay for. I pay above that $99 number and I don't mind for one second, because the expertise that we pay for means ultimately a high quality repair done under less time.

I imagine the callers wanting to know your hourly rate shopping for a mechanic are new to the game or... have had issues with the other 3 mechanics that they've brought their car to for $50/hour. If they're new to the game it's not that they're discounting a shop with high rates, they're just feeling their way. They haven't learned reputation is key.

I don't even look at the bill from Karl when he finishes with my 360. I just hand over the card and pay it... I know it's going to be honest and fair.

 

I fully agree with that (I myself charge my services on an hourly rate).

Low hourly rate should make the customer think. Even if some controller idiots tend to compare such rates like prices for the same shoes in different shops.

But, unfortunately a relataively high rate in no way provides that the work done is better than by some backyard blockhead charging half or even less rates. Even in the same company/workshop, it may strongly depend on the individual, who carries out the work, whether the result is worth the price paid, or not.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

Very true but too often not the subject of the discovery process.

 

That is hilarious.

 

I did the same with Brian when I had my 360.

I was always confident the job would be done right and for a fair price.

That's how you build a positive reputation.

Cheers,
Ian

 

All very true with regards to the hourly rate for 'rate shoppers.'

After I moved to Orlando, I came to trust and rely on the work of the F of Central Florida folks and have never been disappointed. They are not cheap though, as you would imagine. However they do take extremely good care of me and my car. (Now 'cars').

When they dropped their rate for older models a few years back, I didn't think 'finally!' I just thought 'Woo Hoo! Bonus!'

 

Don't know about USA, but certainly much of Europe, there are plenty of dealers (not all, by any stretch!) that have ex-bmw etc techs, working on the older models. There is no retrospective training available for older models. Great at swapping out filters on 458's. Not so good on rebuilding a tranny on a 456. It very often shows.....

 

No training and very little technical information for any of the old cars. There have been changes but we were lucky to get one guy through a school. The schools were pretty good but overall it was the worst training program in the industry.

 

A couple of years ago one of the top main dealers here in London had a workshop open day and they were offering free alignment checks using their laser system.
So, I signed up thinking "why not". They showed the results and quite a few of the settings were out, according to their figures.
They offered to adjust everything (at cost) but I declined and got suspicious. I asked them if they were sure they were using settings from a late ABS 328.
They said "all 328s have the same settings". Well If I had taken them on face value and had them set everything up, they would have set everything wrongly as the ABS and non-ABS 328s are NOT the same geometry settings at all, in fact my car was spot on.
An example of lack of knowledge of the older cars.

 

So true. We used to get sent to Ferrari UK (maranello concessionaires) for training, or modena. In the early days the courses were poor, but they gradually improved. The point is, apart from workshop manuals, lots of the knowledge of repairing pre 430 has long since left the dealer network. It's only now the low-paid service plans have come about, and the shrinking warranty rates, that dealers all of a sudden want the cars back.....

 

When finished, I will not even work out my ACTUAL hourly income on the 76 308 engine/box resto I am currently finishing. But I will be very pleased with the finished product and the owner's joy. Same if it were a 430......(or Pantera, yes I really said that, LOL)

 

Hope you don't mind my asking, but do you quote ahead for such a job, or keep 'time sheets' and bill for however much time it takes? Sounds like you do a quote?

I ask because I vaguely remember a TV show once where they interviewed the (inevitable ) 'old guy' who was rebuilding something significant;

"And how long will this take?"
"It takes as long as it takes" came the response.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

I remember a few motor jobs with heads stuck on the studs. If I had billed every hour it would have been a $50k labor bill.

 

The Hunter racks I have used with specs programmed in were all wrong for Ferrari. For one thing they took the toe figures and interpreted them as per wheel instead of total.

 

Reasonable in case that mayor rebuilding work is due. Because you will likely face one or the other "surprise" when disassembling components.

But e.g. for a regular service, a quote should in any case be possible.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

no one has brought up the use of flat rate manuals, if there is such a thing for the brand.

not that they are absolute or should they be, but more of a guide to the expected efficiency in preforming service... in a way it separates those on a learning curve... while on the opposite side of the argument, it can encourage shoddy service motivated by rewarding speed rather than quality work...

 

The work time schedules provided by the manufacturers, which form the basis of the number in your invoice, are clear.

Based thereon, at least in Germany manufacturer workshops expect of their mechanics to "make" at least 24 "labor values" of 5 min. each, in one real labor hour ......

You may think of what the mechanic does, if time consuming complications appear to come up. Take shortcuts. Mechanics being used to working in manufacturer workshops are not used to take time and think when doing a job, not to speak of simply interrupting the work if trouble becomes evident and take time to think about a good solution to the problem, and not a fast one. Or to get expert advice before proceeding.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

Yes, there are time manuals for Ferraris, at least the later models like the 575M. Not that they are too useful.

 

They have existed since the 308GT4 and they are laughably absurd but all that is used for warranty claims. They are partially at fault for the costs of customer pay work. Warranty is almost 100% a money loser so customer pay work needs to make up the difference.

If you ever wonder why it is difficult getting warranty repairs you can thank Ferrari flat rate manuals and dealers paying via the flat rate system for most of it.


Manufacturers that care about customer satisfaction make sure warranty work can be performed profitably.

 

I was told by a service technician for Mazda years ago, that one of the reasons many "goodwill" repairs by car manufacturers only cover the parts, is so the dealer can still make a decent profit on the labor (because the warranty reimbursement was so bad). In fact, in the case where the dealer is asking on behalf of the car owner, they will often only ask for parts coverage...just so the dealership doesn't get screwed on the labor reimbursement. He told me anytime I am getting a "goodwill" repair and am only getting parts coverage, to contact the manufacturer rep myself and ask for labor as well...often times they will agree, because they aren't going to pay the dealer much anyway.

 

Wasn't the recall to repair the OBDII plug on Ferraris, if I recall the TSB correctly, FNA was paying the dealers a laughable 15 minutes reimbursement to install the jumper wire and pin? When you factor in that most dealerships take that much time just to sit with the customer and fill out paperwork, let alone move the car around from wherever it is stored, to the service dept, make the repair, wash and vacuum the car, then finish the paperwork and deliver the car to the customer....they must have lost a hundred bucks on every car....and probably are for any still out there.

 

Why would you think labor should be less on an old Ferrari? There are not very many mechanics left who can truly work on old cars.

 

Agree. That rare knowledge costs money. If the owner thinks otherwise, let him fix it himself.

Auto techs are perhaps the least paid trade there is. Yet we get the most hate. Please employ a plumber to time your Ferrari engine. They make more then we do, so they should be able to do it.