GTC4Lusso

It's funny you say that, because I always perceived it as a very egotistical move, as if they could construct whatever they wanted and it would sell because it was a Ferrari.

I've read that they admitted thereafter that the FF was a failure.

But the truth is, Ferrari is a very powerful brand, and you can see by the Lusso that they have remained committed to the shape, even when blogs and online evidence suggested a coupe version of the FF would appear on the update of the car. Additionally, being such a strong brand, it would not surprise me if other brands followed suit offering shooting brake designs. Then of course we'd all become more accepting and see this shape as the one to have.

Personally, I prefer the coupe shape, and never cared for the FF as the answer to a question no one had ever asked (4 six ft adults in a Ferrari)- no disrespect intended to anyone who loves their FF and its unique shape; again this is just my personal feeling. But I do now realize that I will likely one day own a Lusso when my OTO begins to age because I'll have no other choice if I want a 4 place Ferrari that offers so many of the virtues i desire in my ride.

So whatever the motivation for the shape, the Lusso now has lead me to subscribe to the notion that their commitment to this shape has and will make it more and more accepting as time progresses.

 

No, it was a very intelligent response to to the needs of a small but significant section of their customer base.

 

What is your evidence of this?

How can someones personal tastes and preferences be "without substance"? The car didn't appeal to them, and they said so. Get over it.

Not "in a few years". It will be many, many years, if ever. The lawyers will see to that.

 

I also prefer the coupe shape. And I regularly have 4 six ft. adults in my Maserati. The back seat has ample room. Trunk space is pretty big too.

But the FF is probably the best car I have ever driven, performance-wise. Very impressive car, except for the shooting brake styling.
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This (the 3/4 view of the gray convertible on page 22) should be the next generation California. I would love to see better +2 seating room which this rendering appears to show.

I'm not sure if there would be much demand for a convertible Lusso. You would lose the whole point of the car- the shooting break.

 

If I could afford one I'd go to the Ferrari dealer tomorrow and put down my down payment immeciately.

 

Well hopefully the next Cali will be bigger in size

 

I think history will show (if it can ever be told honestly) that Ferrari put a huge bet down on both building a car that a certain number of proven clients (eg. people like me) would buy, and in investing in some advanced tech (4RM) and in a controversial style (shooting brake).

FF volume (like any of their V12 2+2 cars) are never intended to be the volume plays, and as long as they can leverage the R&D (which they have, across the F12), they can make a limited number and make them profitable.

Best I can tell, (I'm open to people with data), 1) most "opposition" to the FF was around the shooting brake styling 2) the vast majority of people who have owned and driven absolutely love the car, and it DOES perform phenomenally well and 3) it's among the highest performing cars with a balance of usability out there.

I know that some dealers "forced" FF's onto people (same with Cali, Cali T) to "improve odds of allocations for the popular cars"....well, that happens. FWIW, I'm the one who went in twice to buy an FF, and already am on the list for a GTC4 when it's time to rotate our current FF.

 

FF was Luca's answer to customers who wanted Ferrari to build something for them to go skiing with.

Luca hit a home run with the existing client base with the FF. It was never intended to be a mass market 'new Ferrari customer' car. It was for the few existing clients that wants such a car.

I am on my 2nd FF and I used mind almost every weekend to Whistler, or sometimes even farther away in twisty mountain highways. I cannot imagine traveling those roads in anything else, as other options will mean compromises and suffering. While others struggled on the roads with their minivans, pickup trucks, SUVs, I get to fly around at speed in a Ferrari, what more can I asked for?

As of right now, the FF is out of production, so if at this moment I wanted to buy a Ferrari ski car, the Lusso will be it. I would just as happy be in one, as it fills a need.

But as a existing multiple FF owner, there isn't enough 'incentive' to switch. Styling is quite a bit different, not better. Interior is a lot nicer but the basic car is still exactly the same. That tiny bit of performance increase is nice, but the existing car is already powerful enough.

The most contentious issue for people is the curves around the rear light. As it happens, that's the part I liked the most. It is soooooo Italian, i.e. style over function. They don't have to do that in the first place, they could have designed it like the Lusso, a flat piece of metal and slap on 2 lights and be done with it. But no, they did the complex curves on the FF just because it is beautiful. It was a work of art. Not for everyone's taste but they were Luca's Ferrari and he couldn't care less. Sergio however wanted to be more edgy, more generic to appeal to the mass market, hence he went with the safe route, slap on 2 lights on a flat piece of metal with some sharp angles creases.

I do however, appreciate the Lusso's new front end, and the side profile is nice too, but I have a major problem with that generic rear.

 

FWIW just looked up the definition of 'shooting brake'. Never would have guessed. Learned something!

 

To me the flat haunch around lights suggests a 'tip of the hat to the tesstarossa', I can just picture that image of the rear arches in the side view mirrors, but sharp edges and lines are today's trend. The new Audi A5 is perfect example.

Pic is from autocar http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-audi-a5-coupé-launch-2017
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'Trends' is a vary good way of summing up the styling. Trends don't last being replaced or deposed by the next.

The Quattroporte V claimed more design awards than any other saloon in history and has been rightly hailed for its fluid powerful lines exhibiting the essence of understatement. Some of the most beautiful Alfas of old had the same languid flow of form over function exhibiting grace and power.
In the yachting world where I'm on safer ground, opinion wise, there is a saying that if the design looks right then it generally is right. Sailing ability wise.
We always used to refer to cars as 'she' along with boats the word 'she' inferred grace, elegance and style. As a designer I am always suspicious of gratuitous aggression highlighted by edgy crease lines and superficial adornments.
As good as the GTC4 is I think the PF original will survive not least because it was the original and when 'trend' moves on the FF will remain as the last PF example of powerful undertones wrapped in subtle elegance. It is after all not the macho alfa males weapon of choice but more the carriage of choice for those with other or maybe different priorities.

 

100% agreed- In fact I almost bought the Granturismo when I bought my 612- not anything about money, but more the looks and layout of the car

Ferrari has always made 2+2's- Nice when you need to occasionally put someone or something back there, but four 6ft adults?? For Pete's sake, then take your other car

No, the FF was critically notorious as the answer to the question of four 6ft adults in a Ferrari that no one ever asked. And, although I agree, this has been the view taken by reviewers worldwide, a little reading on the net will easily reveal that, so I'm not here to bash anyone's FF, just stating what I've read.

I've always been a 2+2 customer, and I think the FF is a FANTASTIC car, so no one should get all offended that I'm bashing their car. But the truth is the FF went unnecessarily beyond 2+2. It can be reasonably surmised that most Ferrari owners have another car, likely more practical then their F car, and that envisioning their sports car as the 4 place hauler was not exactly on their mind.

4 adults in your Ferrari?? There's just not a big enough calling for it. But they did it and there are those who love it for sure. However, I think there are more people that would agree the styling is challenging if not awkward, and that a traditional coupe shape was likely what was expected by Ferrari's traditional 2+2 customer base, myself included.

So bottom line is:

Is the FF Great? YES, and then some- Likely better and more tech than F12 in the opinion of many

Is the styling controversial? YES

Would it have been a better bet to release a shape/design that we all could like instead of only a portion of 2+2 buyers? YES, they have likely sold more cars

SO Don't take this personal as if someone is bashing your car, it's just discussion. There's never been any question that I've ever read or heard anywhere concerning the FF's praiseworthiness. The only issue since it's inception has been the shooting brake design. And that issue has existed undeniably since inception and has been a source of contention on FChat as well as the world over. The Lusso now makes a better case for the shape, but again- There is still a huge contingent that still prefer a coupe; and we're not getting it anytime soon, so choices have to be made.

 

Very well said...

The references to Montezemolo and taking 4 adults skiing or playing golf have all been mentioned over & over and there is likely truth to all of it that made a broad case for the FF, but catered to a smaller portion of Ferrari's 2+2 customer base than they had hoped. As a result, there was much conjecture all over the net about a coupe version of the FF joining the model line-up upon the update of the car so as to support those who love the FF for the 4 adult seater Montezemolo meant it to be as well as to support the large balance of 2+2 customers who still prefer a coupe and to take coupe advantage of the incredible performance of this model in coupe format. Coupe variants were also mentioned with V8's and without rear seats as well. This coupe version hasn't been demonstrated, but it doesn't rule out that it may yet still appear. Nevertheless we can assume it was considered as there is much press all over the net that circulated this rumor thereby evidencing Ferrari's consideration of those of us looking for a coupe version.



Again- no one should take offense that their FF is being bashed. GREAT car, but there remain plenty of us who already have more practical cars in our garages and prefer their other cars as coupes...

 

I have 4 "twenty-something" kids and they insist on taking the Maser when we go out. Maybe it's the exhaust note? The leather smell? ;-) Mom's Mercedes SUV is not a better choice for them. Boring.

It's also the calling from young adults with small children in car seats.

 

Clearly there is. Clearly there's enough calling for it for Ferrari to persist with the format. They must be breaking some sort of minimum sales threshold to be going with a second version.

 

IMO It's not about a constant use of the car by 4 adults more so to do with having the ability on occasion to put 4 adults in - just saying

 

Amazing how nice that looks! Would make for a very interesting LE - limited would protect values, V12 four seater might challenge that. Personally, I think I would find it too tempting. Might confuse the life out of the speculators!!

 

Very well said! Compared to some people from this forum I liked the design (and also the name) of the FF successor from the beginning! And after the real life pictures of the GTC4Lusso I just love this car! It's a very beautiful and elegant design and for my opinion Pininfarina couldn't do it better! Kudos to the inhouse designers of Ferrari! They made a great job!

PS: Are you also going to the Geneva Motor Show in march?

 

I absolutely agree with you, the FF has a really sexy backside.
I think it's very good design and love the single lights .

But I have to say, the GTC4 is also very beautiful, I didn't like the first pictures we saw, until I saw the car in person, it looks very very nice!

The new rear lights are not flat, they are hollow inside and when the lights turn on look very up to date, just stunning.

 

I find it to be the most beautiful Ferrari they have made in a long, long time.

From the very first pictures I was smitten, with my will to buy one arising from within...

No matter what my mind might be saying.

Is that not the purpose of Art, to transform our being and experience

 

I just watched a Ferrari released video of Lusso photographs. Funny how they show the car in a variety of poses and then the rear quarter shot goes by in a split second- Even they know what I'm thinking. I looked at the GTC4 Lusso over and over and I like it much better than the FF (personal opinion), but I'm still not sold on the shooting brake thing- In fact it's such a deal breaker for me, which is partly why I traded my 612 for one of the last 612 OTO cars last year. It's as fresh as can be w/o stepping into a shooting brake.

I understand how many of you can love the shooting brake, but a certain contingent of the 2+2 market was given away in favor of another looking for 4 large adults in their F car--- Which may be Great for many, but for guys like me, I'm still unsold on the design and if I ever buy a Lusso, it's because my present 2+2 is getting older and I'll have had no choice.

If you love the idea of 4 full size people in your FF, then you're already sold; however, here's the car they should've built. 4 full size adults can sit in my other car, not my sports car. With potentially smaller people in the back seat, I like this a helluva lot better... a home run by far in my book over the shooting brake balogna...

(Sorry if I pissed anyone of you off- but this is just sharing of opinions & you know what they say about opinions...)
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No offence, but why not go for a F12 then? What is the purpose of a 2+2 when one can only use the rear seats as storage of bags?

 

That's a winner MoeD, assuming the seats really work ... better looking than the GTC4 as all the messy convergence in the rear end is traditionalized. That one and the Spyder would be great additions.