Mike, i taped around the intake and exhaust ports, around head bolt holes, etc. p.i.t.a. My brother helped me weld a pin holes in the headers, around the flanges today. will this week try to get around to reassembling valve train and adjusting shims. need to replace power steering return hose (have easy access to it now). goal is to be up and running by march sometime.
Good that you found replacements and are making progress! We need more of these beasts on the road, have to do our part to drive the price of oil back up (grin) ;-)
There are a first and from 1983 a series 2... The first had the three round knobs for the heater. It has nothing to do with manual vs automatic gearbox. This first series also had a more simple type of "wood" ( which last much longer without the delamination Of the clear coat like the 1983--->. There are in fact four different types of heater control panels in the Quattroporte IIIs... The last one is digital! The Royale cars 1987-1990 had this and another finer type of wood. I agree..., this car is made unlike any other Italien car! Worth saving! There were no small block (just smaller liners) in the same engine block as the 4,9. There are also two different inlet manifolds (redesigned for 1983 model, the one with "Quattroporte" on the boot lid. Show us some pictures! Inlo It's a car worth saving imho if you find bad ones, even if it's a tough path, but it's a true quality car. What you sense in the interior, is not far from a Rolls Royce, really handmade and luxurious. Much more luxurious than a Mercedes 500 SE even if it had not the perfect assembly of the industrial german car. And without the typical "penny savings" of a Jag. Nearly everythings feel expensive in that car, I know they are not worth the money of a Ghibli and that the restoration will go above their actual value but it's a shame that so much are not saved. And even if producing more than 2000 was a success for Maserati it's still way more rare than other big luxury sedans ( Rolls Royce and I don't even speak of Mercedes or Jaguar ) And the engine feels is more italian GT than the smooth ride of other big cars, it has character, it's a 4 door Kyalami after all. It can compare at the same time to a Silver Spirit and to a Ferrari 400i, not matching the superb comfort of the first but with a more sporty character. Not matching the performance of the second if course, but with more comfort, size and luxury. It's quite a special car imho that need a second look. On the engine. I agree with the fact that De Tomaso was a practical guy, and imho he first dropped the 4.7 which was a bit an "in between" engine to keep the 4.2 and the 4.9. The Kyalami before, already dropped the 4.7. The other thing is that full of torque you wear out the gearbox faster. Might be an explanation to have left the 4.2 for the manual gearbox. Sometime decisions are not that logical too, it was a small italian company Imho 90% at least were sold as automatic gearbox. These cars were made for the US, Italian and middle east market. Made for highways or chauffeurs, so mainly sold with the automatic gearbox and the 4.9. So the manual gearbox didn't sell well, the german Maserati club states that there was 51 QPIII 4.2 sold, that version was a complete fiasco ^^ , I don't know how many 4.9 manual were sold. In terms of performance, this is not so relevant, especially now as it depends mainly on the state of the engine (and mine needs definitely some help, compression are pretty bad). 250/255 Hp were claimed for the 4.2 , and 280/290 for the 4.9, it doesn't make a big difference. Torque was around 360 and 390 Nm . But even with the bigger engine, the automatic gearbox eats a bit of power and all these numbers do not make a lot of sense. These things were not for performance even if they were fast. You enjoy the sublime interior with the beautiful growl of those V8 if you push the right pedal, that's all you need . I didn't care that it was a 4.2 or 4.9, I was just happy to find a manual gearbox that I find more playful with that beautiful engine, but the automatic fits those big palace too. The nice things about the 4.2 is that it revs a little higher so even if it lacks the power of the 4.9, you can play more with it and for a vintage car, taht's , to me, more important. As you see I'm enthusiastic (and talkative... ) about my QPIII, the more I see it and drive it, the more I love it.[/QUOTE]
We have infact a 1987 Royale in Norway with 4,9 manual transmission ! Standard on the Royale was an electricsumroof, drink cups and red engine valve covers!
Hi F456M, thanks for the correction and the informations, "small block" was a wrong designation, it's just a different capacity. -For the heaters I had that impression because everytime I found a manual gearbox it had that round heating system and everytime I found an automatic it had the smaller buttons systems. But you're right, thanks for the correction it seems that there are automatic with round heaters , happy to learn ! -For the wood, outside the varnished Royale which are often better, the "matt" wood are often cracked especially the three "plates" on the passenger side. Not perfect in mine but not "white" like sometimes seen. Maybe I will find someone to restore it in the future but that's not the highest priority so I will deal with it for the moment. -just smaller liner? but bore and stroke are different? Or is there simething I'm missing? -I did show some pictures , here are some more, with one of my first photo without the plate, not a lot to add for the moment. As there is salt on the road, it stays in the garage for the moment. Royale with manual transmission, wow ! It doesn't get better than this , big congrats, would also love some pictures ! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Cisco you were saying: -just smaller liner? but bore and stroke are different? Or is there simething I'm missing? The crankshaft is the (main) difference. The 4200, 4700 and 4900 engines are more or less the same physical engine, just with some model sensitive adjustments that have been added in the initial castings. If you throw in the difference between the different wet and drysump requirements for other models you pretty much cover QP1 to QPIII and the other models as well when it comes to this Tipo 107 Maserati V8 engine. First the 4200 was introduced on the QP1 (therefore the tipo107 name on the engine) On QP3 it was 4136 cc with 88 x85 mm and 8,5:1 compression then it grew into 4719cc/93 x 85 mm/8,5:1 used on the Ghibli/Indy/Mexico by changing to thinner liners and different crankshaft. Then the 4700 turned into a 4930.6cc/93.9 x 89 mm/8,5:1 used in the Ghibli/Khamsin/Indy/QP3/Royale/Kyalami when they made another crankshaft with even longer piston throws and different liners. On top of that you have some differences when it comes to the carburators and jets as well as marginal changes on the cylinderheads and top of the combustion chambers/shape of piston tops. These changes cover the 260hp-335hp increase from 64 to 88 on the different Maserati models with the tipo 107 engine installed. Hope this explains some of the confusion Kind regards Kim NORSK MASERATI KLUBB
What is your source for this? My QP3 is a 1980 one, has the 4porte badge on the trunk, but the push button/slider climate controls, and light honey colored (carpathian elm?) wood trim. It's a 4.9 auto. The 727 is more than sturdy enough to handle 5-600hp without modification, there's no danger of the engine wearing out the tranny in these cars, imho. There were differences in the air filter cover and carb enclosure that some models had between the US/EU, but I'm not sure that the inlet manifolds were different. Can anyone else verify these differences? I've only seen two types of climate control panels. One like mine with push buttons (I'm assuming the older model, as it was common in the 70's as well), and one with circular dials, still common in cars today. The Royales are interesting, and rare. Definitely of interest to a collector. I've only seen 2-3 for sale in the last few years. Cheers!
About the heater controls.. The first cars had the three round. Then the push button style. The another push button style with the addition of a "wheel" to adjust the amount of AC power. Then the last which is the digital/touch sensitive model shared with the later Biturbo cars. There is a difference from the first and second version on the thermostat housing on the inlet manifold. I believe this was to get the manifold to be heated better from the coolant, as a carburator makes the part it sits on colder than itself (same principle as an aircondition fluid nozzle works when it change a high density fluid to a gas fluid (that's what give the cooling effect)). The wood on the first cars were matte veneer I believe, but in 1982/3 changed to a more shiny clear coated one. This laquer use to delaminate or whatever happenes and it start to look more white than brown Hey, your QP looks like brand new!! Silver is a perfect color for this car because it looks bigger! Congrats. Where is it?
Thanks Kim and F456M for the details, very interesting ! @Quattroporte3 : interesting 1980 "4porte" with the push Buttons. If it's not a difference between early and later models could it be a different version between Euro and US specs? Things might habe been mixed, it was an italian Hand made after all That's the digital Buttons (4th and last Version), there is this photo on Enrico's site. http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/quattroporte/qp3-14a.jpg You can find it on some biturbos like 228i and some versions of the biturbo of that era (222E? SE? others? can't remember) I don't know that third version with buttons and round , I don't have any photos of that. For the Wood, I don't have any certainties, it's written briarwood and I suppose it is, that said, it looks surprising to have so Long Piece of briarwood but why not. Briarwood is a root the one used for Smoking pipe. @F456M: My car is with me in Bavaria (Germany ) , thanks, I actually don't like silver, I prefer colours in general. But that will be a Topic in a long future. greetings François
This is what the third version of the climate controls looks like. Photo was taken in my euro-spec Quattroporte built in 1985. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That is right! Give your silver QP to me if you don't like it... It should be interesting if we could make a Quattroporte III meeting in Europe one day...
I'd be up for that if I could get the MPG down to something manageable. Still hovering between 20-25 liters per 100km, unfortunately. Where could we meet? Germany? France? Italy? Netherlands? Denmark?
Your is exactly like my 1983 with Quattroporte on the trunk... Someone working at the factory at that time should comment on this!!
February is quickly vanishing and its time to get back on schedule. Installed new valve stem seals, lapped valves, and re-installed valve springs and such. Glad I bought a big box of Zip-lock bags. Tomorrow I'll adjust shims, on a couple of the valves, most are with in spec. And with any luck prep for reinstallation of heads, still have to meticulously clean top of block, where heads rest on. Bought a can of Hylomar, gasket sealant, to use on head gaskets. Owner of the machine shop I used to mill heads, recommended it. Also will use Lock Tite on head bolts, per his recommendation. Not the red stuff, that permanently "glues" bolts in place, but the blue product. Still have to replace power steering return hose from rack 'n pinion, now that I have easy access to it. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
If it doesn't go as planned, I might have to get the big guns out...... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Block deck. Oil surface lightly. Lay glass on block. There should be full contact. Do same for heads to check mill job. Cheap insurance.
I'm aiming for 15-ish. Seems doable based on what I've heard from other owners. You can easily get 5l/100km - by putting it on a trailer behind a Prius (probably not what you wanted!)
Quattroporte IIIs were a car for pretty thick wallets, and still is. Why not live that life for a weekend and experience the car like it was intended.... My 550 Maranello drinks more than the QP III believe it or not.. A QP III with good compression and properly adjusted timing and carbs will be able to get 12 L / 100 kms. When cruising slowly. Not that bad. Same as a Chevrolet Avalanche 5,3 L V8 which is my daily driver.
Sadly not that far (compressions still to correct, all chains and driving belt to check). For a Meeting I would love that but I'm focussing to get the thing properly working for the moment. Just before snow came back, I went for an hour ride on Sunday getting used to the car. Changed the "caps" of the cooling liquid, they weren't airtight anymore and I was losing through evaporation. I filled it up again. The cooling level light was on very often but temperature never went above 90° , actually I think it's working properly. But as there was some missing before and as I did a refuel before starting maybe the "resetting" of the level didn't happen properly, can't remember what is written in the docs on that topic, I have to check. But I wanted to check after my ride if I had lost some liquid and... opened it when the Motor was warm... A mistake but I'm learning , it "spit" because of the pressure difference as far as I understood and made some bubbles but it seems that I didn't lose any cooling liquid during the ride. What was not so good is that oil never sent above 70° (Celsius). And I regulary went between 3000 and 4000 RPM to "clean it" a bit (what a magnificent sounding machine ! ). Heard some irregular "thin" mettalic noise I would it's coming from the Webers but I can't tell for sure. A friend told me it could be a "calorstat" , a temperature measures that activates cooling somewhere? any thoughts on the oil temperature not going up?
That thin metallic noise could also be old or misaligned belts on the front of the engine. Not kidding. They ride up on the sides of the pulleys and SNAP back down. This sounds absolutely awful and quite catastrophic too. It's not. A spray of "belt ease" will identify the issue and temporarily solve the problem. That will also give you pause to put the 45 revolver back in the drawer where it belongs and get on with fixing that issue properly. I hope this is what's causing your noise.
