The F119 power modification thread

Yes totally agree. Engine subframe out of car, apply power and run it on the bench
The only way to go.

 

Of course I have seen that thread. I did not say that it could not be done-- in fact I'm quite confident that it can be done, and in a different and more effective way than was shown in that thread (I'm in no way diminishing the beautiful work shown in that thread, but if 400 hp is your goal there are better ways to get there than an intake $ystem that will support 700 hp). I simply said that you'd have to out-do the engineers who designed the Stradale engine, which gets more than a little easier once you're no longer concerned with meeting emissions standards or lasting through a warranty period.

 

Don't we all? I think ~400 hp would be just about perfect for our cars, although on the track there's never enough.

Ever read Mark Donohue's book, "The Unfair Advantage"? He told a great story about the development of one of the early Porsche Can Am cars (I forget the number since I'm not a Porsche guy). The Porsche engineers held true to their typical efficient German reputations, addressing all of the flaws Donohue found every time he was requested to fly to Germany and test the car. After a few test cycles the Porsche guys noticed that every time Donohue made a list of things the car needed, "more power" was always on it, so they finally asked him how much power would be sufficient for him. His answer was something to the effect of, "When I can spin the tires at the end of the longest straight on any track we race, that will be enough power." Sounds right to me.

 

Want to pick up an easy 10-15 HP, go to an electric waterpump. We all know that the waterpump is way over spinning at high rpm and doing nothing but wasting energy creating excess pressure and that doesn't tremendously benefit flow and cooling which is restricted by the thermostat.

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Easy , want 400 to 500 hp , just buy a 911


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LMAO....never.

 

Agreed! IMO it is all in the ECU. That has to be solved in order to get real results from modifying. If what Mark says is right then you could do stealth mods and still pass smog.

 

You can convert to 2 belts sans pump. Helms has done it a dew times IIRC.

 

In the past fitting electric water pumps i have modified the existing water pump to act as idler pulley, or fitted a fabricated blanking plate with an idler pulley and pump outlet.

 

No!!!

It has to be 401 bhp so we can say it's more powerful than the 360.

 

Great thread Ernie. Do you have the part number for the 4 hole injectors?

Thank you Bryan.

 

Lots of ideas to respond to this one.

LdM comes on the scene and wants to make his V-8 mark. He cans the 348 for emotional reasons (he lost a drag race with a VW, allegedly). Ferrari wants to be at the cutting edge of the street performance envelope. Unfortunately, the factory dropped the ball with the 348, not taking full advantage of modern technologies to enhance the car further during its 7-year run.

So, he needs a 6-speed trans because everyone in a Porsche has one in 1995, or will shortly. He needs an adjustable suspension system because, heck even those backward US cousins have it in the Corvettes. Worse, he has the US OBD II rules and tighter smog regulations to meet. What he needs is variable cam adjustment, but Ferrari is behind that curve, or, worse, doesn't see the necessity of it yet.

The F355 engine is Ferrari's attempt to meet what are current performance enhancements that are being installed in competitor's performance cars. Throttle bodies - BMW M models have them. The way Ferrari chooses to produce variable cam timing is to provide emulation until the release of the 360. The 3rd intake valve is used to simulate more aggressive cam timing at higher revs. Adding an exhaust bypass is another innovation with this in mind. Now the engine can be tuned conservatively for lower, smog testing rpms, and radicalized for WOT performance against the new wave of competition. Think of this in the same vein as current cars using turbos. The end game is the same - provide regulatory benefits and increased performance in a "have your cake and eat it too" philosophy.

Now here's the rub, or maybe heresy for the 348 brethren: The F355 engine has a crap load more performance potential than a 348 engine, if only because it has many more variables to tinker with. Unfortunately, it is a more complicated and finicky mill and is subject to greater regulatory oversight if you want to stay legal.

So that, in a nut shell, FBB, is why we see a "mere" 68 HP difference between a 1995 348 Spider and F355 (312 v. 380). Had the factory adopted an all-or-nothing, winner-take-all mindset as it appears now, I am sure we would have seen much higher performance numbers. In fact, I am sure they could have achieved F355 levels without a new engine design. Considering they were probably looking at the 360 as the next V-8 project, however, it was inevitable.

One also cannot omit consideration of the financial environment. Early 1990's was not good for high-end consumables. Also, the performance comparison between normal cars and Ferraris was still huge, so there was no incentive to push the performance envelope. The public was satisfied with things as they were, hence no business case supported spending the R&D to further enhance the 348 engine. Interestingly, the TR line had a much different experience. 1992 saw the 512TR which was a huge improvement over the TR, almost making it a different car. Then the 1994 F512M version which is another evolution. Makes you wonder what the 348 would have become with the same experience.

 

" Makes you wonder what the 348 would have become with the same experience. "

Ummm , it became the 355.

 

Kiddies

The new chips are here, the new chips are here and they are chocolate chip LOL

I have 100 to burn through of the higher speed ones
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Exactly. Same block, just a natural evolution, as the 348 engine was from the 328 engine. As I illustrated in a post above, the efficiency of F119 was actually quite impressive for its day. Keep in mind that this was Maranello's first attempt at using Motronic on a production car and most of the engine wizardry we have today was unheard of at the time.

 

Hi Folks,

I know this is a little off topic, but I know the F119D and F119G are basically the same engine except the F119G is the one with catalytic converters here in the US... Besides having the catalytic converter, is there any other difference in the engines to anybody's knowledge?

My car recently turned 25, which means it qualifies for "Historical Vehicle" status here in California, which also means (depending on who you talk to) I should be exempt from Smog, which makes me want to take out the cats (yeah stinky, but I hear it sounds better and an extra 5HP ain't bad)

Would love to hear anybody's thoughts on this?

Cheers

 

I plan to return to Md. in two weeks and will start my 348 project then. I'll send you my old chips for maping as you requested. I am rubbing my tummy and patting my head in hopes of becomming a test bed for the new chips. I am giong to to do the before and after dyno's so it would be a great oppurtunity to check with real data. Andy

 

Where are you getting your car dyno'd in MD?

 

It seems like you're well on your way to proving it and the rest of us will benefit from your work. That is if you share your secret sauce once developed.