Only caught this now. Would you agree that, using the token system, upgrades would be done a bit conservative in an effort to keep the engine from blowing up and having to revert to the previous engine development?
Yeah. They certainly don't want to homologate anything about which they have doubts. But you can bet that Honda in particular, & the others to maybe a lesser degree, are running many dynos pretty much 24x7 to try & figure it out. By the time they take anything new to Charlie it's safe to assume it's completed many full race simulations. Having said that, more & more parts are being 'locked down' over time - that actually concerns me more as if you're hosed, you stay hosed, and that sucks! Cheers, Ian
Alonso was nearly 2 seconds off merc pace on similar tyres. Forget the 'testing so times are meaningless' excuse - McLaren have improved but merc have improved too. Williams were .2 seconds off merc pace on ultra sorts vs merc on sorts - that's 2 stages of tire harder, yet still faster. From the long runs it is also clear that the merc is not only ultra reliable, but is also kind to the rubber. They are going to be devastating this year. At least it's a 2 horse race as Rosberg is in with a good chance this year... As for Ferrari - well 2nd place would be nice and looks achievable. Wdc and wcc looks to be well out the window already. how depressing...
A token would only be submitted after millions has been spent testing (dyno room and simulations) to ensure that that change is the right direction. This is why the token system does not save a single cent and is a joke. All it does is restrict poorer teams who cannot spend the $'s developing the token upgrade ... Pete
OK, but Williams are using the same PU...... Again, you better spend your tokens wisely....... It could be argued, & as you well know, often is, that the racing has *always* sucked! 'There's no overtaking' and so on. Again, the nature of the beast. Cheers, Ian
+1 Nothing to do with the teams themselves. It's a development race between the PU suppliers. The teams take what they're given. It may be 'misguided', same as the testing ban IMO, but again, they made their bed, now they've got to lie in it...... Cheers, Ian
I wonder what the falloff is for those Ultra Soft tires. I wonder if guys that are good at conserving tires can extract more laps out of them to make a big enough difference.
yep, and can you imagine the millions spent on speculative development in parallel to season development as a result? Since everything is pretty much locked in and unchangeable during the season and teams have to save their speculative fixes/upgrades for next year? and lets say all the speculative / hypothetical development led up to a complete disaster at the following year's testing. BOOM, millions upon millions yet wasted again and the cycle continues. best practice to for pursuing progress & innovation = let people pursue them, not artificially constrain them.
I will watch live as always, even if on travel. I hope for some challenges to Mercedes up front by Ferrari or someone else. Maybe a surprise there. Certainly back we have Haas, Force India etc to keep us happy along with Williams. I expect action behind Ferrari and Mercedes to be good racing. Its worth it to me to see each race, every lap. I like F1 and have not 'hit the wall' so to speak with Mercedes winning. They have done all they can and deserve the accolades due them for the effort.
The engine was just 'chilled' for 2014. Lots of development last year...lots this year...and more planned for the future. It's time to see that 'they' might have learned a thing or two and are trying to correct the situation. They are so used to zero engine development, they thought the token system would work. It's 2016...a lot has actually changed since 2014.
Very well stated! 100% agreed. Sure, it looks like Merc will disappear into the sunset again, but I too enjoy the 'midfield' battles; Who's fighting above their weight? Which jockey is beating his 'mate? Who pulled off the move of the race? Who screwed the pooch? And so on. I learnt long, long, ago that the front is generally pretty consistent - Someone gets it right, & the others have to play catch up. And this applied even in the days of unlimited testing etc. Again, it seems to me that many seem to enjoy it precisely because it makes them miserable! Cheers, Ian
Minus the petronas fuel, which gave merc a huge boost. I have nothing against not having build the best car. There's no freeze on that development. Indeed Yes. I'd think we'd be a lot further right now had the engine power been ''thereabouts'' the same but with the current sucky aero. Measures would be taken to reduce aero from the wings, and overtaking, or at least the following of cars within a second of each other, would be possible, thus enhancing the ability to overtake. Ferrari are quite close to mercedes with their engine power. Mercedes is at 950, Ferrari close. Renault 875-900, Honda at 850 (these are guestimates by the experts). 2017 talk is going the wrong way with more aero. The teams and the FIA won't be able to sort it out. Red Bull voted for more aero, because they are very confident in that area. Bernie needs to dictate a little like he says so often.
Lol. No. the 2014 engine, or rather ''power unit'' was the furthest thing from ''chilled''. It was a HUGE mountain to climb. So many different systems implemented, yet so little time to get everything working together.
You implied that the new engine was frozen after two tests. I'm saying it was sort of frozen for one season only...2014. They found a loophole for 2015. They agreed on making the loophole the standard (and then some) for 2016. And...they are pretty much agreeing to even more latitude in 2017. By absolutely no means has the development of the engine and power unit been frozen...with the brief "chill" from March to November of 2014. That's what I'm saying.
That's not entirely accurate. They are limited to updating/developing only certain "aspects" of the power plant, but they can't change the fundamental design after homolgamation. So in that regard there is most definitely a "frozen" period, followed by constrained development which limits how much teams can catch up.
Indeed. I'm certain 'our' favorite engineer (Dr Lily (sp)) is on the case at Ferrari..... +1 I posted a recent iteration of Mercs current front wing down in aviator chat, & I think it 'scared' them!...... As you say, Bernie needs to say 'no more multi element front wings'. Just a main plane & an adjustable trim tab. They'll all B&M, and then move on as they always do. They may even be able to follow each other some...... How's that for a concept!? Cheers, Ian
They changed all that... They increased the number of 2016 tokens from 12 or 16 that they were supposed to have to 32...the same number they had last year (2015). They also decided to not limit the areas of development as initially planned...to allow Honda and Renault real chances of catching up. (Just like they had to alter the rules in the mid-00s to allow Renault additional development/catch-up time). Crankshafts, etc. are still open to development.
-1 Nope, sorry. (IMESHO of course.) The Manors & Force Indias of the world buy what they can. Merc, Ferrari & Honda are spending the $ trying to develop the PU's, not them. While I'm not a fan of the token system, I do understand why they did it. Pretty much the same reason as they outlawed unlimited testing/test teams. They're still free to develop, but they can't use the 'scatter gun' approach of old. Now they've got to *think*, rather than just throw mega bucks at the problem. Cheers, Ian
When compared to unlimited development/testing, anything looks limited... My point is simply that there is more development going on now than there has been in years. AND...the development that IS going on is more than was originally intended because maybe they have seen the light regarding testing bans. In a nutshell, yes...it's limited. BUT, it's not as limited as it has been nor as limited as was anticipated. Glass half full.
