Live pre season testing

I don't necessarily love the look, but I'm not seeing this as a decapitation device or one that will do more harm than good...

If a driver's head comes out of the cockpit and hits the structure, then something in the driver restraint system failed miserably...

If something hits the structure and breaks it...causing it to come loose...then it will have done its job by seriously decreasing the potential energy of whatever hit the structure.

IOW, in any situation where this structure causes a problem...it would be because an even bigger problem was averted.

 

FWIW, I don't really have a problem with it.

I'm with Bas, it's not obstructing visibility, they just look 'thru' it. The brain is amazing that way..... Much more restricted viewing in tin tops etc.

Anyone remember the Williams with those hideous vertical 'wings' ahead of the cockpit? IIRC, Jacques was asked about them restricting visibility, and he said he didn't even notice them.

I'm also not sure that it wouldn't have saved Jules. We'll obviously never know, but if it's strong enough, maybe.

Cheers,
Ian

 

+1

Very well stated. Thanks!

Sure, it looks a little 'funky', but we'll get used to 'em.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Lets wait and see just what the final FIA regulated decapitation device looks like before attempting to describe it as a 'thin piece of carbon'.

 

The interesting part to me is the construction. A steel inner structure with carbon fiber exterior. The carbon is obviously there for strength, but it's a very brittle material...exceed its limitations and it shatters. The steel isn't as strong pound for pound, but it's a much more ductile material...exceed its limitations and it bends (BTW, 6kgs of steel is not a trivial amount...with clever shaping that can be a VERY strong structure).

Nobody will ever know if it would have helped Jules...

But, we know that his head submarined under the loader...the loader was picked up into the air. The top of his helmet was pushed down to the level of the surrounding crash structure of the car. Would the halo have stopped the car sooner? Don't know. Would the halo have prevented his helmet from being pushed down by the under-side of the loader? If it's strong enough, yes...too weak, no. So obviously, design and construction of the structure will determine what it will and will not prevent.

The other thing to keep in mind is that there are a number of recommendations in the wake of the recent open-wheel deaths...the halo is not supposed to fix everything by itself.

 

I'm curious how you see this decapitating a driver?

 

By removing his head from his body.

 

Good, sound, scientific reasoning there. Thanks for the explanation.

 

They're going about this halo thing the wrong way. Carbon fiber is completely the wrong material as it is just too brittle and could actually inflict injury say if it shattered as a result of some other incident. Carbon fiber shards and pieces are like daggers, hardly safe.

The halo should be of perhaps titanium and should be integrated to the standard crash structure so it's not appearing as an afterthought like this mess ferrari used today appears.

 

I'm sorry, this really isn't a laughing matter, but I did LOL at the above.

I too fail to see how it could decapitate a driver. As already noted, if his head gets anywhere near it his belts have failed miserably. And that doesn't happen.

Conversely, if it somehow gets pushed back into him he's already in a world of trouble, and this thing has at least absorbed a **** load (scientific term) of energy prior to that happening.

Err;

As he noted, done right, & I believe that FIA Safety Institute are probably the best there are at this stuff, it should be very, very strong.

Cheers,
Ian

 

+1 on all of this

 

Haas has had a truly miserable couple of days.

 

that halo thing is full rahtard.

how is obscuring a driver's line of sight even more safe? and wait till a wheel or something hits it at force, that carbon fiber is going to shatter into carbon fiber pellets.

 

You're not following what's been noted: There's about 6kg of steel inside the thing, and steel is very ductile.

As for obstructing his line of sight, it's also already been noted that's simply not the case.

Please re-read the thread before adding nothing to it. Thankyou.

Cheers,
Ian

 

So, what if there's steel underneath it? The carbon shell will still shatter upon forceful impact and can still pepper the driver's helmet. And perhaps the halo doesn't obscure his immediately forward line of sight, but the posts on either side obstruct plenty from the rear view mirrors.

 

The other part you're missing is that IF that happens, it would be the 'lesser of two evils' situation. You'd prefer the energy of your proverbial tire to impact the driver directly?

 

+1
as long as it doesn't impede line of sight, which it seems it doesn't, eh.
I'm sure this is designed for easy egress as well.

 

Why does it have to boil down to only this or that? I'm more inclined to believe that there are other solutions to test.

The only takeaway I'm getting from this halo thingy is that engineers & aerodynamicists are trying to find a minimum level of effort solution that will also leave the smallest aero footprint/impact, rather than actually saving the driver's head.

And btw, this solution would not have saved Jules either, so something to think about.

 

That's one of the reasons they wear helmets.... Carbon's light, it'll just bounce off.

Nonsense. They can always mount the mirrors where he can see them. Maybe even on the darn thing.

Having said that, have you ever studied a race cars mirrors? They're little more than a nod to the regulations that insist they have to be there. We often used to knock them out of alignment on the grid as we didn't want the jockey worrying about what's behind.

Cheers,
Ian

 

You don't know that. This Halo certainly would not have prevented the crash, but it certainly would have reduced the impact to Jules' head. The direct impact to Jules' head would have been reduced, even if ever so slightly, maybe enough to not have killed him.

 

Considering it's construction, I find it highly unlikely that the carbon will shatter and pepper the driver, blinding him and making sure his funeral is a closed casket. You guys should be aware that the entire car is made of the stuff, and not once has it completely exploded and murdered the driver. Also...when carbon does ''explode'', it doesn't come hurling at you at a million mph. F1 noses in particular are designed to shatter upon impact. If it was dangerous for driver/spectators...it would NOT be on the car!

Would it have saved Bianchi's life? We'll never know, but considering how it is build, it certainly would have helped having it!

Here's what a decently designed piece of steel will do:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCCNNpmt8ds[/ame]

Driver walked away.

 

Red Bull reportedly think that they have a better solution...we'll see what it is. The concept shown, again, is not visually attractive...but, it stands on solid ground from an engineering standpoint. So far, all of the 'what ifs' from the decapitation/it's dangerous crowd fail to acknowledge the science.

 

Again, discussed above. We for sure will never know if it may have saved Jules, but it sure as hell *may* have helped.

'Minimum effort solution?' I don't think so. This is a serious research effort by the best in the business. These guys are genuinely looking at the pros & cons of different solutions.

The only other alternative right now it seems is going to a closed cockpit. And my little brain suggests that solution would be more fraught with problems: extraction & fire being but the two most obvious.

Cheers,
Ian

 

+1

Not just the noses, but the rear crash structure too. Specifically engineered to absorb enormous forces and 'shatter' in an impact. Wonderful stuff.

It probably wouldn't work 'alone' in this usage scenario, which is why it's steel inside.

'Motor racing is dangerous.' But anything that trys to mitigate that risk is welcomed by me.

Cheers,
Iam

 

Not all carbon fiber is created equal, as in the example you guys have posted, the carbon for the nose is designed to crumple and absorb kinetic energy, hence why they pretty much disintegrate upon impact as intended:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc0wFyCIDfE[/ame]

This halo structure was designed for rigidity, not absorption.