Who here has gone further from the planet? Post up how high you've been. And if not still classified, in what. Non-aviation guy question. What is the biggest factor determining aircraft ceiling? I get it that air is less dense at altitude so generating lift the higher you go must be an issue. And know from mountaineering that most the density is very low so how much thinner can it get sky high? It seems that spy planes don't have enormous square footage wings to compensate for air density to create additional lift to climb higher. I know from hillclimbing (Pikes Peak auto race) that combustion engines prefer denser air to operate. Non-turbo cars suffer power loss at altitude and turbo cars we increase the boost to compensate for less air. How much of it is engine performance? Weight of the aircraft? Do planes reach the boundary of earth's gravity? Re-entry? How how is too high that you need to worry about burning up returning to planet? What really limits my commercial pilot from taking me on a space journey? Inquiry minds want to know. Wondered this falling asleep last night and knew experts here have answers.
This information has been classified until now: As high as I have ever jumped, I have yet to hit my ceiling . . . .
I knew a couple of U2 pilots but they'd never tell me. I know one of them did a 16 hour round trip non stop. Long time to sit in a cramped airplane and actually having to fly it the whole time.
Wow.... Biggest ceiling factor: air (oxygen)... eventually there's not enough 02 to support combustion in the jet engine. There's also the "coffin corner"... a control issue in very thin air - look it up. Many spy planes absolutely DO have large wings due to the altitude: U2, drones. You stated that they don't. The SR-71 used speed in lieu of a huge wing. Turbo cars self-compensate for altitude increase to some extent, but you can add boost. Weight? not really, they design for a particular weight There is not a boundary for earth's gravity, that's what keeps the International Space Station orbiting. Earth's gravity affects the moon, Mars, etc. Re-entry has to do with speed and angle of attack, not height, basically. The use the friction of the atmosphere to slow the Shuttle or whatever down so it can land. It's going over 20,000 mph in orbit. You cannot do a 'space journey' in a jet. There must be air going into the jet engine... there is not enough when you are too high. See the first answer. Rockets carry their own 'oxygen' in liquid form, they don't need atmosphere.
Snowboarding almost 13,000 feet in Colorado. Flying FL400 in a new 737-700 that Southwest put into service a week prior 3 weeks after 9-11-01
49,500' in an F-111D at mach 2.55. AF regs then required a pressure suit for flight over FL500. F-22 pilots with partial pressure rigs have gone to FL600.
i just noticed this thread and I have to say that I think I have the highest ceiling of any place we have lived in. Our living room has a cathedral ceiling in it that goes up at least 20 feet. That's pretty high to me.
I'll never be able to post any big height or speed number here.. I'm in no hurry.. I like to go as low and slow as reasonably possible and see lots of stuff and keep enough options open to glide to safety if it all goes kaput.
Very cool! Do you 'feel' the lack of air when driving up there? I'd guess so, but I've certainly never travelled at those kind of speeds/altitudes either. Where did Concorde cruise at? I seem to recall she went pretty high but don't know. I like yer thinking!..... I'll come fly with you! Cheers, Ian
Cool! Love that little 'dashboard' display; "Flashing - Overheat Solid - Fire" Thanks guys! Cheers, Ian
Nice set of "Steam Gauges" you have there. At least you never have to worry about your flat panel displays going dark.
Ian- An F-111 had to be supersonic to go much above 30,000', not enough lifties at lower speeds with the very high wing loading. Felt pretty normal above mach 2. Roll was a little different mainly because the spoilers were locked out at 72.5 degrees wingsweep, but that was the same at lower altitude and high wing sweep. You definitely felt like you were ballistic at that speed and altitude, though. Could not pull much g at those speeds because the flight control laws really backed off on amplitudes for the slabs and rudder. Did not want a compressor stall at mach 2.
That can go a few ways.... Though the steam gauges won't typically all go bad simultaneously like glass can but I have had dozens of instances where we have shut down engines or had other inflight emergencies because of individual gauges going bad and showing this or that out of limits. I have a "fond" memories of sitting in a sweltering cockpit in the desert while they replaced a guage multiple times due to the new ones being defective straight out of the box. I love checking out out old aircraft and the myriad of mechanical gauges and instruments that make the C-130 seem downright simple but glass can be pretty nice too. I'm getting qualified in the C-130J right now and so far I haven't heard a lot of horror stories about the glass crapping out. Rather than eyeballing a bunch of mechanical gauges to try and decide if the needle is wiggling because of an actual flux or just a crappy gauge there is a digital signal that tells you exactly what the state is. That's not to say that the computers can't be deceptive in their own way but my feel is that they can be pretty damn reliable. Back to the subject of the thread..... I posted the pic of 34,000 in a C-130E because that was a real achievement in that aircraft. Other than the guys on that flight I don't know anyone else amongst my peers who has been that high in one. The C-130J it's no problem, been up to 34k on half my flights so far. Here is a pic from 32k last week. Things are kinda wonky because the IP forgot to deselect INS for attitude reference during an in flight INS alignment. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The B-17 had a service ceiling listed as 35,600 ft. It could go to 41,000 and still operate...all without high speed, pressurization, and encapsulation. Temps -70 deg. Amazing airplane ...and crews.
I guess I look at it as one of those things that you do because you have no alternative but to make it work. My only flight on a B-17 was as a passenger and didn't get above maybe 3k feet which was nice but I couldn't imagine how tough it would be to try and perform on a long combat mission under the conditions you mentioned.
It is impossible to reconstruct the environment that was endured by the enlisted crew members. None of their equipment was designed to adequately cope with the temperatures that always found its way into your body. Long Johns, electrically heated suits (that actually worked sometimes), a flight suit, and the fleece-lined leathers had some effect. Then there was an ill fitting oxygen mask that generated snot at a prodigious rate that dripped down into ice cycles onto your Mae West. After 5 or 6 hours the body was dehydrated by it and defending the airplane in action for that time extracted almost everything else that was available in the body and the brain. The pilots, navigator, and bombardier had heated suits and sometimes a flight deck heater like the B-24 had it a bit better but not much. Most of them that I knew have passed on earlier than those of us who did not see the extended action that they did. In fact, all of my high school buddies who saw action in Tarawa, Iwo, Okinawa, The Bulge, and Midway are all gone. How lucky I have been!
FL510 a couple of times in my old GV. It was always the last hour or so of a long haul and it felt wrong. We normally cruised at .85 but at 510 we were at .80 if memory serves. In the GIV, its rare to go over FL430 unless its weather/turbulence related.
I am at 5419' doing the same thing. Folks in Santa Fe, Taos and Colorado Springs are considerably higher, never mind about Vail or Leadville (10,152').
