Sure. Couldn't agree more. This is not a nose or tail, or even the survival cell itself. Very different requirements. Which is why there's a bunch of very ductile steel in there. Cheers, Ian
According to Williams, Ferrari is in reach but Mercedes in long gone. I hope at least RB and McLaren are back in it to make things somewhat interesting. Williams thinks it can beat Ferrari and be second to Mercedes in F1 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
If we took massa's head injury as another use case, this halo probably would not have done anything to protect his noggin either...spring would've still flown right through and hit him smack dab in his head.
I do know that. You're telling me that that little structure has a chance of supporting the weight of the lift service truck he slid under? It probably would've killed him instantly actually, the steel+carbon fiber smashed and compressed even further against his head ontop of the weight of the truck...another more probably outcome is that halo sheering off more of the survival cell it's connected to from the impact, thus making the driver even more vulnerable.
Injuries from situations like Massa's are certainly a concern, but he is still racing. That is not the yardstick they are working with right now.
The best way to prevent a recurrence of the terrible Jules incident is to ensure cars and low loaders are not on the track at the same time. The wrong way to solve the problem is via this half way house solution which is not in any way perfect and which is designed to solve a problem which has already been solved in other ways. I'm not convinced.
Holy-Moley! You got us back on topic! I'd like for *anyone* to be challenging 'em TBH! Don't much care who, would be nice if it was 'our guys' but anyone to put them under pressure..... We know they don't do so well under pressure. Cheers, Ian
I'm pretty sure that's the current state of play - I believe if there's any kind of 'rescue vehicle' out there now Charlie red flags the whole mess. I'll go with that, even if it pisses off the almighty TV gods. I'm not 100% convinced either TBH. But it appears to be a step forward and may just save someone's life in the future. Hopefully we'll never find out...... Cheers, Ian
I tend to agree with the second scenario. If the halo structure gives up in a crash, where do you think it's going to go? They need to test crash it at different angles to see how it reacts. I'm not sure it'll decapitate the driver but the 6kg of steel may do a lot of dammage to the head in an impact. (I too was laughing hard at the response, and this is not a laughing matter for sure). I also don't believe this halo would have saved Jules. If you saw the video of the crash, the halo wouldn't have had a chance with the tremendous speed that his car had when crashing against what it seemed like an unmovable vehicle.
That makes no sense at all... We all know that if that same spring was 1/8" to the right or left it may have or could have killed him. That is the exact yardstick they should be working with.
I don't want to sound callous or anything, but Jules speed also played a role in what happened. He was driving way to fast for the conditions, every other driving in that area had slowed way down. I'm not convinced this is going to save anyone's life. In fact I fear, as I've stated already, this will induce an unintended consequence that cannot be seen by way of any testing. Racers die in cars with full roll cages, you're not going to prevent injuries or deaths in the sport of auto racing. It's impossible.
Look how far the driver's head is in relation to this halo. No way it would the halo itself get crushed down on the driver's head/helmet. It most certainly would have bent/crushed upon impact with that crane/lift, but it would have reduced the DIRECT impact to his head. Again, I don't know if he would have survived, but you can't deny the reduction of impact to his head. I agree with you Texas, Jules WAS driving faster than the conditions warranted. I don't want to sound callous either, but Jules WAS at fault. IIRC, he was speeding, trying to catch up to the safety car and the train behind it. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I believe you and Jason are correct, if memory serves me Jules was exceeding the full track caution mph and the weather condition mph. In some accidents even the safest race car cannot save a drivers life.
In the event of a crash so severe that the Halo would fail, having no halo would've killed the driver. When crashing into the tire wall at really high speed, the front end (or side) would've dissipated so much energy it shouldn't damage the halo either.
I think that's pretty much what the FIA Institute has been doing. Sure, 6kgs of steel is a fairly substantial amount, but it's 'sacrificial'. I may be wrong, but empirically it makes sense to me - it'll reduce the force with which most things hit the drivers head. They've got decent helmets & the HANS device is a wonderful thing, but protecting the noggin should be a priority IMO. Very true, & you're probably correct. However, it would have at least deflected it a little. Maybe just enough to avoid a direct hit to his head. Again, I'm certainly no expert, but 'basic' engineering principles suggest to me it's a good idea. Cheers, Ian
I can't remember who crashed there initially, but I know they werent going near the speed Jules was. It's good to be concerned with safety, but when things are already safer than they've ever been implementing this seems to be more of a " just because" than true concern. The concept doesn't scream ingenuity at all.
Like most changes or the thought process regarding said changes the old "hit and miss" process is a constant. Guess we will see how things pan out.
Pretty much what I've been trying to say! Thanks! If the thing is ever put to the test, the guy's in a pretty ****ty situation already. Again, from an empirical engineering perspective, I can't see it doing any harm, let alone 'decapitating' the guy. And it may just help. Cheers, Ian
I beg to differ. I think they're genuinely trying to make it safer. And the technology will trickle down to the lower formulae too eventually. Sure, they're 'safer' than they've ever been, but surely that doesn't mean they should stop trying to improve things? And to me this thing looks like an improvement. Cheers, Ian
+1 If Jules' car was fitted with one of these halos, I'm pretty confident it would have been firmly planted into the front of his head. Mark
What we could say is that this halo most definitely would work with an errant tire and perhaps in the more possible scenario of a car being lifted by another and getting its tires close to the cockpit, like in the famous Grosjean meleé with Alonso and Hamilton in 2012 at SPA.
1) We don't know for sure. 2) I'm sorry to be blunt here, but there's not other way around it: Bianchi was brain dead immediately after the crash. IF the halo had been there, and it did what you say it did, he would still have been dead.
