FINALLY ORDERED THE F12

Agree. I bought a limited edition 599F1 Alonso for $398,000. Put 1,200 miles on it and put it on consignment at the dealer 2 years later as I wanted to get my Tailor Made F12. Sold it for $285,000. Just the price of doing business with Ferrari from my experience.

 

Are you up to date on the demand/ sales for the California T? I am not but I hear the car is not exactly in the highest demand.

I think you and the dealer are disagreeing over the financial risk present in the California. They are saying they are unwilling to take the risk present at the level you want, and they would rather risk your unhappiness. That tells me something, especially considering the otherwise great relationship as you've stated.

Perhaps a follow up to clarify at what price point they would take the California and how they see the car doing in the market place.

My 2 cents is although they can sometimes feel like friends, you don't pay friends commissions.

 

They are phony friends, not hard to figure that on out. You said it best, you don't pay real friends commish.



On another topic, consigning and ordering simultaneously is something I'd never do, it's just setting up a bad situation. I have always sold then bought. Or bought and sold after. Either way is fine. Trading out cars like this never ends up good.

 

For those who are taxed on their purchase, and live outside of California, the benefit of consigning while ordering is getting a tax credit on sale proceeds toward purchase. I think dealers can escrow this for ~6 mo. But I agree, one would be creating a scenario that may end up being costly.

 

Excellent point!

 

Good point!!

I know the drill, did the Vegas LA commute for 20 years with Florida tags the whole time. There's always a solution that doesn't involve a dealer and mess's like this.

IMO 2 cars 2 transactions, soon as cars get intermingled there's weakness most any dealer will try and exploit, sad but true.

 

Very nice- the California is a lovely car as well. Good luck with the Speedster sale. Those are cool cars.

Mostly I'm sorry to read of your frustrating experience because believe me you are not the only one!

 

Basically you wanted them to take a hit to make you happy. In my experience very few dealers will do that especially Ferrari dealers.

 

Given that I wanted to get an allocation for a new Tailor Made F12, that is exactly what I am saying. Perhaps I am naive....

 

Canary in the coal mine for turbo acceptability in the Ferrari model line going forward ? I hear by 2018 all car engine displacement must be 4L or less. I understand that is too small for a V12 to make sense mechanically. The writing is on the wall for the demise of the NA V12.

 

I have a California T on consignment with Ferrari of South Bay. I've sold five cars on consignment through them and they've always delivered. The California T has taken longer to move than the other cars. I could ask them to purchase it but I'd be scared to see what that number would be. My asking price is quite a bit higher than yours and the fact you haven't been able to move a nicely spec'd car at a reasonable price is indicative of the market. My car has been listed for four months without an offer. You might try doing a trade for a used F12. The money you'd lose on the trade you could make up on the purchase. I wouldn't jeopardize a relationship with the dealership, I'd just try and figure out something that's acceptable to both parties. They will figure out a way to make things right in the long run. Good luck.

 

I have a tiny 3 litre NA V12 on one of my cars designed by a chap called Gioacchino Colombo and it seems just fine.
I must say though that despite being an older old school V12 owner I think the Cali T looks great and if that is your DD you should have a smile on your face every day.

On the question of is a dealer your friend ? The answer is no but that shouldn't rule out a friendly business relationship. Such a relationship can be trustworthy and mutually benificial but he needs to understand that you are a client who can take business elsewhere whilst you need to remember that he feeds and educates his kids by selling cars.

 

I agree Graham. Especially about the dealers. You know that 3 liter motor is a masterwork and the sound is truly one of the highs one can experience in any automobile from anyone. I don't think they planned for the resulting aural symphony, but once experienced, it will never be forgotten!

I also agree smaller engine displacements don't necessarily mean the NA V12 is over but I do believe they will either go to V12 turbo or with hybrid assist. The former I think is more feasible today. The latter maybe will be more feasible for some point in the future. We will just have to wait and see what Ferrari comes up with.

I don't think the relative softness in the California T market= rejection of the turbo concept.

I happen to prefer the NA experience in general as compared to what I think of the turbo experience: better sound and more immediate throttle response. But the turbos are getting better all the time. The only real issue I see today is the sound. That matters more in a car like the F12 or a 458 for me at least. In a more GT oriented car like the California, it bothers me less because Im more inclined to enjoy the mid range torque and the less sharp exhaust is more fitting to what I'd be looking for.

I have no data whatsoever for my little theory which I humbly submit as to why demand may be a little lower than forecast. This is purely my feeling based upon my obsevations as to another reason beyond the cars coming off the leases why the California market might be a bit softer than hoped for.

Ferrari said they wanted a different kind of client when they brought out the California- and I think they succeeded- very well in fact. Most of the California owners I know are new to the brand. They formerly owned SLs, 911 Turbos, Bentleys even Jaguars. They wanted something more unique and were literally what Ferrari was aiming for: people who would like to be a part of the Ferrari family but maybe were put off by the image of tricky service requirements or limited usability. But they are not the sort who buy a car every other year. They are more apt to keep the car for a much longer period- maybe even beyond a decade.

My theory is maybe Ferrari slightly misjudged the typical California owner's trade in time frame. Maybe they knew it would be longer than the typical 430,458 owners who turn in their cars for the latest and greatest, but maybe they thought California owners might trade out sooner. Aside from the California owners I know who bought the cars for allocation reasons, the owners I know who bought their Californias have not upgraded. I remember mentioning to one friend as he was about to order a new California if he waited a few months he could order the soon to be newer California 30. He didn't care about that. He just wanted a Ferrari.

So even the larger changes in the California T to more power, updated styling, etc does little to motivate these people to trade out. Even though it really is a very nice car- its not on these people's radar. And I think the market for the California is somewhat finite- so its possible they found most of the California buyers in the prior rounds and now there isn't much demand left in the marketplace. I don't think the owners I know really keep up with the latest and greatest. They figure the car will sell for whatever when they eventually buy a new one in 10 years....

 

When I bought my Enzo 10 years ago, I wired 1.075 cash for it. I got no special treatment. As a. Coincidence my f12 came thru the same dealer. I did get respect. And a great deal. I'll take respect over friends all day. However I did get some great Lambo deals being a 'friend' of a dealer, of course he disappeared and so did the 'friendship'.

I'm not going to start mincing words, I think we all get it.

Yes I sold the Enzo for 1.3-that's by far the worst deal I ever did on a car I owned. Hurts to think of that. the dealer looked it up it sold for the 4th time after me a month before I bought a 990mile f12, didn't want to wait for a build. He asked if I wanted a LaF, or another Enzo. Yes and no were my answers respectively. No LaF yet ;-)


Cars & dealers are what they are, I ain't mad at them and of course if misplayed a deal and got way the worst of it, mite happen again, but the older I get and more deals the better I do. Unless I don't care like the Enzo deal, it is what it is.

For the OP the other dealers you mention within 100 miles-3 are the same owner(who I'm cool with) so your leverage isn't leverage. They don't have to care. Not my rules. Best of luck, if I can help I'm happy to

 

Regardless of what you could have made, you did make money and held an Enzo for at least some time. Not too shabby in my book especially if you could have an LaF on the way.

 

Nope just a car guy who has taken a few hits and knows more are coming.

 

Exactly. I am in your camp as are most of us who have been in the Ferrari world for some time.

 

If you want to update its part of the transactional cost. The dealer made a calculation and thought your business relationship wasn't worth the financial risk. Perhaps it's more than you are estimating. Whatever the amount it seems like a lifetime customer has more value than one deal.

 

They sold my two 458s, GT3, GT4, and GT3RS. I have the California and another car on consignment with them right now. My 488 Spider will be here in May and I'm waiting on a TDF allocation.

I hope you can reconcile your differences with the dealership.