456 manual transmission prices on the rise? | Page 5 | FerrariChat
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456 manual transmission prices on the rise?

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by MoeD, Jun 17, 2013.

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  1. MoeD

    MoeD Formula 3

    Aug 1, 2007
    1,278
    USA
    Full Name:
    Moe D
    #101 MoeD, Oct 28, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
    Taz-

    If you supplied any data from which to extrapolate transmission in US M cars, then it got past me. I remember when we chatted on this a ways back looking to quantify this subject and I did contact FNA, but it was to no avail as they simply referred me back to 'my dealer'.

    My recollection from reading at the time of M intro was 10% manual imports for the US. I can't substantiate any of that and even I would find it hard to believe; however, having spent 3 years trying to find a manual in my color of choice before purchasing, I have kept a keen eye on the market ever since purely out of curiosity, and the manual market is indeed a thin one.

    How thin it is remains to this day hard to pin down. The market will of course set values based on many factors including transmission, but it would be nice to know what the market is reading.

    Taz, you're of the highest regarded individuals contributing to the forum on these cars- Have you any inclination how we might uncover this data? I realize it may not be out there, but perhaps you have an idea...
     
  2. Somersett

    Somersett Rookie

    Sep 30, 2015
    11
    England
    #102 Somersett, Nov 4, 2015
    As one who has just voted with his feet and bought a manual 456 in the UK I am sorry to say

    that at least in this market (where only 10% of the cars were 3 pedal when new) manual

    prices are significantly higher than GTA's. Since I bought it to drive and enjoy i am not

    interested in future values, only first cost. I would love to have bought a 6 speed for the

    cost of an auto but it soon became clear that was not going to happen. There is not a huge

    selection of rhd cars for sale at any one time but with the automatic it was clear that owners

    were reasonable and flexible on price in order to reach a sale. Not so with the manuals. At any

    one time there has been an average of three or four cars for sale and the owners know what

    they have and seem happy to wait for the right buyer. I tested around a dozen cars, manual

    and auto but decided that a manual was what I wanted. I paid roughly 35% more than I would

    have for an equivalent GTA and I'm very happy with the end result. For those that think I am

    probably just another Brit auto hater I have owned dozens of autos going right back to Buick

    Dynaflows and Packard Ultramatics so I am very open to transmission choice as long as it

    suits the car. I suspect that I will seriously consider buying a second 456 to enjoy when I am

    in the USA (different roads, different traffic conditions) this time a GTA.

    Having been a designer/development engineer in the motor industry in Europe I was not

    surprised that the 456's I drove varied widely in their on-road abilities. What was

    interesting was that they fitted a very consistent pattern. By far the worst to drive were the

    low mileage cars which were sluggish and oddly unrefined. Cars which had moderate

    mileages but had little regular use were also unpleasant and usually needed a lot of money

    spending in all the usual trouble areas. I drove 3 cars which were lovely both visually and

    to drive, all would be considered high mileage cars. I bought one of these and I have planned

    out an aircraft style maintenance schedule where things are rebuilt or replaced before they

    break or wear out. I am starting with a full rear suspension rebuild including new accumulators

    as these appear to be the originals. The front Bilsteins are being redone too and it should then

    ride and handle as I remember they did when new. My service schedule covers calendar

    replacements over the next 20 years and mileage replacements over the next 100k miles!

    What will the car be worth in 2035? I don't care as I am not planning for it to be sold

    until I keel over. My kids can work out how to sell a high mileage 456 manual!
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,071
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #103 tazandjan, Nov 4, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
    UK RHD 456 production 141 GT, 61 GTA, 456M production 33 GT, 139 GTA. A bit more than 10% for either. Quite a few have migrated to Australia and other RHD locations, though. Does not mean a good three pedal is easy to find. The numbers for both GTs and GTAs are very, very low and the 3 pedals are way more popular.
     
  4. Playframe King

    Playframe King Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2010
    320
    UK
    #104 Playframe King, Nov 4, 2015
    so my m GTA (1 of 139) - is rarer than a manual non-m GT (1 of 141)...nice
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,071
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #105 tazandjan, Nov 4, 2015
    Yup. Facts are sure fun, no?
     
  6. MoeD

    MoeD Formula 3

    Aug 1, 2007
    1,278
    USA
    Full Name:
    Moe D
    #106 MoeD, Nov 4, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
    Somersett-

    I started this thread over two years ago when I first felt that 456 manual transmission values were moving vs. their automatic counterparts. What I didn't realize was that it wasn't just stick 456's, but all sticks of late. And now whenever someone contributes herewith, I like to see because I've followed the 456 manual transmission market closely, purely out of curiosity.

    And for some reason, even though 456's had a Grand intro, they've been largely overlooked until now, and for this reason I believe many sat w/o attention and so those who weren't using them regularly left them neglected or didn't feel the values justified the car for investment in maintenance and other needs. It's funny how when prices start to move up on any model how they suddenly appear out of the woodwork at shops everywhere getting the required attention.

    Since higher mileage cars were likely serviced and cared for, this inclines me to agree with you that the higher mileage cars likely drive better. My own car has 22k miles on the clock and I stopped putting mileage on it when I picked up a 612, but my experience is similar to what you mention; having had all the shocks and accumulators redone along with everything else of which I could think before I tucked her away for less than occasional use.

    The truth is, though, that the car never drove as well as it does now before it hit 20k miles. After 20k it seemed as though it had finally broken in and the engine somehow came alive and seemed to sing like never before. Having redone every need and tuning the car it is now more pleasurable to drive than ever before and it really beckons one's love for it. And this is why perhaps these cars haven't had the most wonderful following, as very few people probably get these cars to this particular combination of break-in mileage and cared-for condition.

    Perhaps this can be said for most F cars. And it's funny how most people with late model cars want to jump out before 20 thousand miles on the odometer to avoid the hit in value. But the truth is the more broken in and maintained cars will consistently be more rewarding to drive.

    Good Luck with your 456 purchase- Drive it and enjoy it and Thanks for sharing with us ;)
     
  7. Mr. V

    Mr. V Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    1,247
    Portland, Oregon
    #107 Mr. V, Nov 4, 2015
  8. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,838
    Burradoo... Actually
    Full Name:
    Graeme
    #108 au-yt, Nov 6, 2015
    I have noticed this trend of 20k miles mentioned a couple of times.
    Question did the car get the cams retimed at the same time as a belt change?
     
  9. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    #109 David Lind, Nov 6, 2015
    So a manual is currently in the low to mid 80's, while an automatic is anywhere from $50,000 to about $60,000, or have I oversimplified things?s
     
  10. Andrew D.

    Andrew D. F1 Rookie

    Jul 6, 2008
    3,979
    Goodwood Ontario
    Full Name:
    Andrew D.
    #110 Andrew D., Nov 6, 2015
    The front engined V12s, 550 and especially the 456, sat at the bottom of Ferrari prices for too long. They are now being appreciated for what they are. The manuals especially are not replaceable these days.
     
  11. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

    Sep 29, 2007
    12,600
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Allan
    #111 2000 456M, Nov 6, 2015
    About right for the Ms, but the 456GTs will be less than the MGTs. The 456GTAs (1997) will be the least expensive.
     
  12. bikerbob100

    bikerbob100 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2007
    582
    Naples/Spider LK, WI
    Full Name:
    Bob
    #112 bikerbob100, Nov 6, 2015
    The VAST site has a lot of dated listings FYI.
     
  13. MoeD

    MoeD Formula 3

    Aug 1, 2007
    1,278
    USA
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    Moe D
    #113 MoeD, Nov 7, 2015
    The last two 456M manual cars I saw- 100k was the number
     
  14. Mr. V

    Mr. V Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    1,247
    Portland, Oregon
    #114 Mr. V, Nov 7, 2015
    Food for thought: where will the prices be in five or ten years?

    Nobody knows, of course, but unless there's a global melt-down I can see nothing but blue skies ahead.
     
  15. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,361
    Eastdown
    Full Name:
    Darius
    #115 Themaven, Nov 9, 2015
  16. John814

    John814 Karting

    Apr 19, 2006
    68
    Indianapolis, USA
    Full Name:
    John Phelan
    #116 John814, Mar 17, 2016
  17. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,838
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    Graeme
    #117 au-yt, Mar 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. Northman

    Northman Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2014
    429
    Laurentian, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Denis Gauthier
    #118 Northman, Mar 18, 2016
    CNC is in California-not Canada so the price is in USD.
    We do not have so many palm trees over here.
    How about the 2000 tdf manual for sale at Ferrari of Seatle for $175,000 ?
     
  19. Nelsonc275

    Nelsonc275 Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2013
    1,629
    #119 Nelsonc275, Mar 18, 2016
    Looks like we will be holding on to our TDF 2003 M GT!
     
  20. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,838
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    #120 au-yt, Mar 18, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
    Sorry about currency mixup.

    I see the Seattle 456 is quite low milage
    http://www.auto.com/cars/ferrari-456_m-gt-2000-zffwp44a6y0120253


    Good idea!
     
  21. Tifoso

    Tifoso Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 8, 2005
    257
    Concord, NH
    Full Name:
    Carmine
    #121 Tifoso, Mar 19, 2016
    As a fellow TDF M GT owner (mine is an '01), why would you ever sell anyway? :)
     
  22. Gizzi

    Gizzi F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 3, 2011
    5,217
    Brisbane, Australia
    Full Name:
    Gezim
    #122 Gizzi, Mar 19, 2016
    I wondered where that bugger had gone Graeme! So it definately sold?
     
  23. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,838
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    Graeme
    #123 au-yt, Mar 19, 2016
    I was speaking to Simon before the sale and told me they had lots of interest..I am trying to confirm and ho much, however I can only assume so by the fact is now in the CTS sold section.
     
  24. nettwerkjohn

    nettwerkjohn Karting

    Mar 6, 2015
    114
    Waikawa, Picton 7220
    Full Name:
    John Phillips
    #124 nettwerkjohn, Mar 19, 2016
    i just had my 96 gt (rhd) valued at 145k nzd... but i wouldnt sell it for that. what would i replace it with?
     
  25. Gizzi

    Gizzi F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 3, 2011
    5,217
    Brisbane, Australia
    Full Name:
    Gezim
    #125 Gizzi, Mar 19, 2016
    I'm glad they are actually selling for that price. But, like you mate, mine (wife's) wont ever be up for sale. The wife loves it too much!
    Jodi is in Tassie at the moment, and I took the kids to the Karting track yesterday. I took the 456 and while fuelling up, a lady walked up and commented on how beautiful the car was. They are such a gorgeous, understated car.
     
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