Speciale or 16M or RS 4.0?

Where do you see 16ms at 299k?

 

+1
The Speciale is a great car and faster than all three on the track most likely, but not in the same universe in terms of rarity. Speciale Aperta--that is a different story.

In terms of driving, I would also say, at normal speeds the RS and 16M feel more differentiated than the base car. Speciale is fantastic, but not as differentiated unless you are really on it.

16M feels like a fire breathing dragon when going under the speed limit on the way to the ice cream store...

 

Yah, wondering the same thing. Maybe a high mileage car if there is one...

 

+1, would love to see those cars at 299...

From what I see on autotrader, low mileage 16M are priced higher than equivalent mile Speciales generally speaking.

Here is an autotrader search:
Ferrari Cars for Sale in Beverly Hills, CA 90210 - Autotrader

 

I have all three....the 4.0 is truly for a porsche enthusiast. You have to love porsche and understand porsche to really appreciate this car. The car is great in so many ways but it's not nearly as exciting or memorable to drive as the 16m or speciale. The Ferrari's are an event every time u drive it. The sound, feel, and look doesn't compare to a 911. The 16M is the real future collectable of the three. It's got crazy great looks, ridiculous sound, and the transmission is a blast. The speciale is the best car of the three but the rarity and unique features of the 16M make it too special. Just my opinion from a guy that knows them all very well. But, truly can't go wrong w any...all are legendary!

 

Here is a suggestion. It's not on you list, but very well may appreciate. Consider the new 911 R. Its basically impossible to get. From what I hear the factory is only making it available to the guys that bought the 918 from Porsche...🤔

 

For me the intended usage, road conditions and the number of law enforcement officers one is likely to encounter would be a consideration.

The Speciale is truly astonishing and one can go extremely fast, the 4.0 is more analogue, the 16M is more raw with the F1 gearbox.

I'd go for either the Speciale or the 16M.

 

Where do you find a "new" Speciale (I assume it is a preowned one with super low or delivery miles) around 370k? And one with 2-4k miles around 350k. May be one minimal or no options? because base price without any option is around 300k.

 

I think I may have responded to the wrong person before. Can you send links to 299K 16Ms. I have not seen anything close to that. Even very high mileage cars seem to be significantly more than that.

 

He might be in Europe. Tons of Speciales for sale in Europe and much cheaper than the US.

 

Ferraris in Europe do not hold value like the US.

 

Few months ago there were 2 units in eastern Canada, sold below usd 300k because the usd exchange rate. IMO 300k is the maximum for this car. Because the successor is way better, so there is a limit. Unlike the once every 10 years hyper cars. The buyers now are mostly flippers. People who want to buy and drive will try to get msrp at most or move to other models. Collectors have gotten what they wanted from the factory when it was launched, so they are not looking to buy. If the 488's successor is non turbo, there will be many 16M offered at 200k negotiable.

 

I would not by the Gt3 RS unless you can get it at sticker (you probably can't ) as i doubt they will hold. THe 16M has shot up in asking price in the last 6 months so unless the car is around 300 to 325 with 2500 I would be uncomfortable that you might lose money (you said you did not want to ) so I guess the speciale is the best deal which you should be able to buy at the closest to sticker of the 3 mentioned IF i could add the SCUD it is the same as a closed 16m and is still available at far under original sticker so maybe that is the least likely to lose money on...

 

Perhaps I am missing something in terms of what you mean--apologies if that is the case.

Respectfully, everybody is entitled to an opinion however the facts that I see seem quite inconsistent with the opinion that 16Ms are available for 300K. Namely, the sale prices and listing prices of 16Ms in Europe and the United States. Further, your view(or mine) on what car is better will not be one shared by all buyers.

1. US Prices: please see the autotrader and cars.com link below. Cheapest ask is 398 low mileage cars significantly higher.
2. Europe/UK prices:
Cheapest car on piston heads is 375USD and it has near 11K miles. Only one car listed on Autoscout. Price is 395K USD and car has 35K KMs on it...
3. Exchange rate. USD/CAD is about 10% off its low--but even so I did not see the cars that low there. Do you have a link? Maybe there was a tiny moment when the economy was melting down and someone got a bargain? In any case--I would hardly use a brief moment in time to counteract the current market information we have.
4. There have been plenty of cars trading much higher than 300K. Below is an auction link in Europe where one sold in September a at 336 EUR /380K. Others have reported on Fchat and I have heard some first hand myself.
5. "The successor is way better" Obviously that is an opinion but what you look for and what others look for in a car will undoubtedly be different. Is the 488 more desirable than an f40 because it gets a faster lap time?
6. Cars are mostly owned by flippers? How can you know that? People I know that have 16Ms swear that they will never sell. That is of course anecdotal but no more so than saying all the cars are owned by flippers...
7. Collectors are not looking to buy. Obviously this can't be universally true and I think many would argue just the opposite. Namely, that the limited cars have gone up specifically because they have attracted collectors.

Links:
2009 Ferrari Convertibles for Sale in Beverly Hills, CA 90210 - Autotrader
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action?zc=90210&rd=99999&kw=16m&mkId=20014&stkTypId=28881&sf1Nm=price&sf1Dir=ASC&sf2Nm=price&sf2Dir=DESC&page=1&perPage=50&searchSource=SORT
Used Ferrari Scuderia Spider 16M cars for sale with PistonHeads
Search Results

https://auctionata.com/o/150028/2009-ferrari-scuderia-spider-16m

 

I can't agree with you about this.

First, there are always those who you would call collectors who just couldn't get one when they came out. And these people really do exist.

Second there are people who might not have been in the market for a 16M for many reasons back when they were available. But now they are.

I've learned people are complicated and its usually folly to generalize their motives and intentions. But I will tell you everyone I know that's bought these cars, they not flippers.

 

These are asking prices.. not SOLD prices

» 16M Scuderia Exotic Car Search
Ferrari 430 Scuderia 16M | eBay

I could go on but I assume everyone can search on their own.

 

For the ebay listing I think you may not have seen the auction correctly. That is not the "asking price" and the reserve has not been met yet at the current level. The "ask" price for that car is 400K at the dealer. That price is inline with other dealers if not slightly high given the miles.
See link:
2009 Ferrari F430 Scuderia Spider 16M Scuderia Spider 16M - Driving Emotions - Palm Beach, FL | Exotic & Luxury Car Dealership Specializing in Aston Martin, Bentley, Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Rolls-Royce, RENNtech, and mo

Here is the autotrader and cars.com and autotrader search below--lowest priced car is 398K, most are significantly higher--especially with low miles. If the red car is available at that price it is obviously an outlier vs the other cars which may be either good or very very bad.
2009 Ferrari Convertibles for Sale in Beverly Hills, CA 90210 - Autotrader

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?zc=90210&rd=99999&kw=16m&mkId=20014&stkTypId=28881&sf1Nm=price&sf1Dir=ASC&sf2Nm=price&sf2Dir=DESC&page=1&perPage=50&searchSource=SORT&aff=comjunct&cmp=3819510-_-12307984-_-im1aswf7610004n5032od