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456, fuel smell 550 575

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by au-yt, Feb 21, 2016.

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  1. Gizzi

    Gizzi F1 Veteran
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    #26 Gizzi, Mar 20, 2016
    Great work mate! I'm going to order a couple for Jodi's car. Did you replace the pumps while you were there? Or, if I remember correctly, did you have them replaced when you replaced the pump mounting grommets? I just recieved the mounting grommets last week. At $95 AUD, the bloody things aren't cheap!
     
  2. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #27 au-yt, Mar 20, 2016
  3. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
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    #28 Cribbj, Mar 20, 2016
    Graeme, could you tell what that bushing is made from? Phenolic, hard rubber, etc.? Would be useful to know its resistance to ethanol.

    I think Bill from Las Vegas has had a set of those covers in his 550 for a year or so now, and he drives his a lot. Maybe he'll chime in and give us an extended use update.
     
  4. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #29 au-yt, Mar 20, 2016
    They were CNC'd plastic not sure if they are phenolic. Even the washers on the bolts were resessed into the plastic. The bolts are stainless internal wrenching. The only mod I should have done was I should have cut a screwdriver slot in the end of the bolts to stop the rotation doing up the nuts. I tried removing the bolts but they were almost pressed in and when I saw the tiny O-ring I stopped.
    Other mod I did do as I think I may have said is the NPT5/16 fitting needed the threads reducing by about 3mm on the fittings I got here in Aus. The manufacturing tollarences may be different elsewhere. I note that Eurospares supply fittings with the plates.
    The other thing was the corrugated fuel tube. They needed to to be heated carefully with a paint stripper gun until they were transparent for then to pushed onto the pump and barb fitting.
    The other thing I should of made and may still have to, is a tool to stop the plate rotating when I did up the lock ring. Did I mention the lock ring is a so and so to get started. While at the same time pushing against the spring effect of the pump.
    DIY out of 5 is a 4. I used a lathe to trim the NPT barb fittings, heat gun and I made my own removal tool
     
  5. Ryzo575

    Ryzo575 Rookie

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    #30 Ryzo575, Mar 21, 2016
    I can put my hand up & say that 575's do have issues also. I just recently this week started smelling fuel around the rear left area, much stronger from the rear vent where the small gearbox radiator sits.

    I'm going to have a look at the pumps this week & see if I can spot the problem, I'll take pics & keep you updated.

    Glad I spotted this thread.... :)
     
  6. F.Engineering

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    #31 F.Engineering, Mar 21, 2016
    wonderful custom parts !!!
     
  7. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #32 au-yt, Mar 21, 2016
    I love engineering art pieces and the plates are right up there. My background is in heavy maintenance of Boeing aircraft and these fittings wouldn't look out place on any aircraft.
    I do have some close up shots on my PC that I will post some when I get a chance.
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #33 tazandjan, Mar 21, 2016
    Maybe I will stop saying 575s do not have that problem after a couple of real life examples.
     
  9. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #34 ferraridriver, Mar 21, 2016
    I still have a hard time believing the 575 covers are a problem. So far I haven't seen any pictures of a cracked 575 pump cover.

    That's not to say that 575's can't have a fuel leakage problem, but is it actually the plastic covers that are the problem?
     
  10. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #35 au-yt, Mar 21, 2016
    This will be interesting. Looking at the 575 tank and pump assembly in the parts catalogues The installation is similar retention of the housing looks to be plastic ring. If the fuel line connections are the same as the 456 and the housing is half way up the tank, then the probability of the same issue with the 456 exists.
     
  11. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #36 ferraridriver, Mar 21, 2016
    The 575 cover has no stud to lock the hoses like the 456/550 cover. There is only one push on hose and the wire connection so there is virtually no stress on the 575 cover.

    The 575 pump is not supported by the cover as in the 456/550. It is located by two long bolts from the top of the tank.

    There is very little similarity between the two covers. I think they are made of a different plastic compound, The 575 covers I had seemed to not be as brittle/hard as the 550 covers.
     
  12. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #37 au-yt, Mar 21, 2016
    Good point,the parts diagrams can be misleading.
    So 575 has the latter system without a fuel return line.
     
  13. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #38 ferraridriver, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yep, There is a pressure regulator in the cover and excess fuel is returned to the bottom of the pump. The 575 cover has a larger diameter than the 550 so they are not interchangeable.

    Converting 575 pumps to work in a 550 was a three month project working intermittently. There were several hurdles to overcome.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #39 au-yt, Mar 22, 2016
    Topped up the tank this morning and no leaks....so far.. Leaving the cover off for a day or so.

    That leads to the next curiosity about the fuel tank capacity.

    I had about 1/2" of fuel in the tank with the pumps out.

    I put back in the two 20 litre containers (40 litres) I had siphoned out. Then filled them both at the bouser, (40 litres) and put them in the car at home expecting a leak nil.

    Then this morning drove the car 5ks and I put in another 37 litres
    By my maths and a guess at the 1/2", that's 120 litres in the tank.
    So if the tank is 110 litre capacity, there must be about 10 to 15 litres unusable fuel....or I burnt that much during the initial restart after turning the power back on...10 litres idling.
     
  15. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #40 ferraridriver, Mar 22, 2016
    At least, I figured about 19/20 liters left in the tank after the on board pumps ran dry.

    I guess they depend on slosh.
     
  16. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #41 au-yt, Mar 22, 2016
    May be 110 litres is the usable mount and the tank is actually 130 litres.
    I put 20 litres in and the fuel light was still on then after 40 it was still on... Durrrr. The fuel cap being open is the same light!!!
    So my as my assumption there was 20 litres resurve,...where's the drawing board
     
  17. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #42 au-yt, Mar 23, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #43 tazandjan, Mar 24, 2016
    Work of art. Love brass parts. Have several English Lantern clocks that are all brass except parts of the movement and the bell. I have some cold metal clock lacquer that keeps them shiny for years.
     
  19. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #44 au-yt, Mar 24, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2016
    Just for the record the brass parts, were bought separately and the picture shows how much needs to be taken of the thread to allow the plastic hose fittings to full seat into the aluminum housing
    I turned them down on a lathe and its a real fiddle getting whats left of the thread to go straight in and tighten.

    The car certainly wasn't happy starting the first time after having it apart and even the second start, it settles and runs really well but do I need to do a reset to stop the "learnt" grumbly start issue or will it settle.

    Also now if I could just get rid of the residual fuel smell.

    Whats the cold metal lacquer you mentioned, Valvoline Tectil 151?
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #45 tazandjan, Mar 24, 2016
    Graeme- The cold metal lacquer is sold by clock parts suppliers in the UK. Do not think it is the Valvoline Tectil 511, but who knows what they poured into the little bottle 30 years ago when I bought it? Still works well. Spread on with lintless cloth or paper (Chemwipes).

    Looking at Tectil 511, it leaves an oily film, so definitely not the same as cold metal lacquer. Here is what I mean. I use the natural one.

    M&P Clock parts: Metal lacquers
     
  21. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #46 au-yt, Mar 25, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
    Thanks for the link. I will ave a look at that sound interesting.
    Tectyl 151 is different to 511. 151 was designed for the outboard motor industry as an opaque dry non oil sealer. The Maserati I restored 15 years ago I sprayed all the freshly cad / and zinc plated parts and they didn't dis colour one bit, magic stuff, you cannt see or feel it its great on all polised and plated parts.

    I have been looking and just then I found this its sold by Cummins
    Part Number SPABO_6171
    Part Description VALVOLINE TECTYL 151
    Cummins Genuine Part SPABO_6171
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #47 tazandjan, Mar 25, 2016
    Graeme- Will look for it again. Not much on it when I checked.

    The reference from Cummins is the only thing I found. Valvoline's site does not even list it, just a generic page on Tectyl.
     
  23. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #48 au-yt, Mar 25, 2016
    Terry Can I revisit this question
    The car certainly wasn't happy starting the first time after having it apart and even the second start, it settles and runs really well but, do I need to do a reset to stop the "learnt" grumbly start issue or will the starting settle?
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #49 tazandjan, Mar 25, 2016
    Graeme- You can, but she will do the same thing herself if you just drive her a bit. Will not hurt anything to do the reset procedure.

    Run cycle.

    Turn battery disconnect switch off and turn off all accessories (stereo, A/C, etc).
    Let engine get completely cold or wait at least 30 minutes.
    Insert key in ignition and leave for 30 seconds.
    Turn ignition to on and leave for 30 seconds.
    Turn ignition off and leave for 30 seconds.
    Turn ignition on, wait for Check OK, and start.
    Let idle with no input whatsoever for 10 minutes.
    Turn accessories back on and drive gently for 10-15 minutes at least.
    You will have to insert stereo code, if required.
     
  25. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #50 au-yt, Mar 25, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016

    Terry. Many thanks The hand books description is very basic. and yous is the most comprehensive rest I have read. I will keep a copy so I can refer to it.

    Can I assume this covers GTs and Ms?
     
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