car design thread

Oh, really? to work with truck designs? They've kinda dropped the passenger vehicle department, after the Volga Siber failed a.k.a. localized 1st gen Chrysler Sebring. They've got a very very odd management there.

http://test-drivez.com/data_images/gallery/models/gaz-siber/gaz-siber-01.jpg
For those who don't know, the GAZ Siber was a normal production vehicle, the quality was okay, but a) the design had no pedigree; b) Volgas were always RWD and Volga fans couldn't accept FWD; c) the price was pretty damn high for a base car - around $16K at the time; d) you could still buy an american-made Sebring for a lot less.

Among all the odd GAZ projects in the 90s: 3105 (AWD V8, bad looks), 3103/3105 family (FWD/AWD longitudinal), which later transformed into Lancia Thesis (the team went to Italy), GAZ Ataman (really THE ugliest 90s SUV ever), 3111 (way too russian even for russians), there is something worth mentioning - 2002 GAZ-3115 one-off prototype. It was an attempt to create a small RWD sedan, like Mercedes C-class. Nothing way too beautiful (GAZ always struggled to make a ЯUSSIAИ design and always failed), but it could be made a little better in production. The car was RWD, double wishbone in the front, independent 5-link in the rear.
But instead it was Chrysler Sebring.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRhy4JxZaQU[/ame]

In the last few years, after GAZ started production of localized Mercedes-Benz Sprinter cargo vans, they adopted many parts to GAZ group trucks, the Ural truck came out really good.
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It was going to be a joint venture car project to replace the 'old' Sebring.
The whole deal fell through, probably for the best.

 

Wow, some great stuff on these past couple of pages - thanks guys!

 

If it was meant to be FWD again, then for the best, hehe.
I believe, that happened because the swedish CEO of GAZ Group was stolen by the Renault-Nissan alliance to run Lada (AvtoVAZ) projects. He was quite successful! But Renault-Nissan is gonna dismiss him this April, as they say, due to big net losses. The losses are obviously astonishing 25 billion RUB in 2014 (was like 714 million USD) and 75 billion RUB in 2015 (due to crazy currency conversion rates, a rough est. would be around 1,25 billion USD). They invested a lot in production of a new model (based on Renault B0 platform) and set a new factory, so that all can be justified, it looks like some corporate games. But all in all, this factory is a just a pile of crazy money.
It may seem that the situation is common to your Detroit Big Three, but Detroit guys have some nice models, while Lada has got affordable FWD underpowered crap, which is no fun.

I'm mostly focused on RWD vehicles and supercars, as I find those quite fun. I always wanted to launch production of an affordable RWD coupe (since I was like 16). Being realistic, I've developed a conception of a full-time AWD sedan with entry-level luxury trim, losely based on Renault B0 platform, as it might sell better (no such car in the mid-price range). According to my calculations at least 4000 units / a year are needed for an 8 year pay-off, and 8000 units / a year for like 3-4 years. Higher production numbers will need a bigger factory. The advantages of the car could be: very handsome design, bad/cold weather utility being a full-time AWD, elegant interior, engines and many mechanical parts from Renault-Nissan locally made (and locally priced, which leads to bigger profits). The whole budget for the venture lands around 300 million USD mark, which is small for a series production car business, but still a lot. The marketing strategy - being the most crucial thing in sales is also the hardest here, an introduction of a new brand will lead to long period of adaptation and so on. And the outcome is not an RWD car or a supercar, that I'd want to spend my time on, haha. (And the supercar needs a lot less investments) So I'm a little stuck with the AWD sedan.

Another wise man passed me an idea of an 'exotic/luxury' SUV: it might sell really good, many exotic brands companies are expecting huge demand in Bentley Bentayga, Lamborghini Urus, Porsche looks like Capt. Obvious with Cayenne (actually, all three cars share many parts, Bentayga is gonna be made at Bratislava, just like Cayenne). Keeping in mind, there are about 25 cars of the very rare Lamborghini LM002 in Russia, the idea might be worth developing. Though I don't like SUVs: you can't see through them on the road and when you drive behind them, they seem to throw a lot of rain water and dirt from the road at ya. I've got my own scores to settle, haha.

One point I'd like to notice is that LM002 wasn't an expensive car. It was about $125,000 - quite expensive, but when you'd compare it to the Porsche 964 Turbo ($190,000) or Mercedes 600SEC of the time being $250,000 - it's kinda affordable. The car is nice to drive, I don't blame the clutch pedal - it's okay, actually. I'd blame the steering more: a quicker steering box would fit the car much better, and a more powerful engine too. Bugging my friend to drop a 9.0L Lamborghini marine V12 in the next LM002, haha.

P.S.
Bentayga looks okay, as it probably should - like a Continental GT SUV. I don't like that style much, Turbo Rs appealed to me better.
While URUS is looking ridiculous with that super side slope. The pics show a concept vehicle, I've spoken with my local Lamborghini dealer who had seen the pre-production series cars. He told me that it's gonna be quite big and wide, about 2 m wide. It shares some ancestry with LM002. But technically it's a VW with Lamborghini engine.
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Several years ago, we did a sponsored project at school. One student chose to do an SUV specifically for Russia.
Thought it looked rather 'Soviet Bloc Industrial'
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More cool stuff from the Porsche Mission 'E' from Form Trends:
Design Story: Porsche Mission E Concept ? Form Trends

 

great article on the history of 'chopped tops'
History of the Chopped Top part 1 - Custom Car ChronicleCustom Car Chronicle

 

Looks like St.Petersburg plates, haha.

You can't beat Marussia's attempt. ('When few bad ideas are just not enough')

I don't mean an SUV for Russia, rather an SUV for the world and Russia as well.
Out of all SUVs with russian designs, the Kombat T-98 (aka Dartz and many other names) is a good one. It looks acceptable and yet it's a very functional design, one car in Latvia/Estonia lost control at high speed, knocked down a light spot and flipped over on the roof. Not only the car was intact and not a single window broke, but both occupants escaped without a scratch. (The car actually uses many many Chevy Tahoe parts with an exception of the Allison transmission)

The creator of this one made several sophisticated concept cars by the end of the soviet era, then came the 90s and concept cars interested no one, so he started making armored cars, which were in demand, then got GM distributor rights and so that's how it came along.

Some pics of the early creations, Laura-1:
http://www.kolesa.ru/uploads/bnnews/2015/07/28/e6977df796dadff355ecf9ae084f5408-995x0-90.jpg
http://auto-junior.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/4-%D0%9B%D0%B0%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0.jpg
http://ru5.anyfad.com/items/t1@c1724a17-0eaf-4783-b573-1d5287f58cc5/Laura-avto.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/8/6/0/1098068.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/2/7/0/1098072.jpg
(it's said, that Nuccio Bertone came along to the "Laura-1" car on the '85-86 exhibition in Europe and was quite amazed that it was build by only 2 guys in a shed.)
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/9/9/0/1115099.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/1/0/1/1115101.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/7/0/1/1115107.jpg
Laura-2:
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/6/7/0/1098076.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/8/9/5/1100598.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/9/9/5/1100599.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/0/0/6/1100600.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/7/7/0/1098077.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/8/7/0/1098078.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/9/7/0/1098079.jpg
http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/0/8/0/1098080.jpg
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these look quite serious

 

Since buying a car you wanted in the USSR was quite a problem, people designed their own cars as good as they could make them...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIU5oLHPKDY[/ame]

Don't mind their rookie or weird design, now it's just history. This video features many legendary soviet 'self-made' cars like Pangolina and Laura-1 (from my previous post). Actually I haven't seen this video before.

 

Aight, I should mention the other top 2:

1982 'Pangolina' with its roof and Gandini influenced design
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMMb102HPCs[/ame]

1982 'Yuna' which was continuosly developed through the 90s
This one receives my 'attention to detail' award
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M7SJp8sURU[/ame]
The frame is steel tubing as usual, the running gear was swapped for a BMW straight-6 in the 90s, the rest is one-off.
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What a great video. Shows when you have the passion, anything is possible. The video looks very dated, but they've come a very long way as noted by their Russian car design website www.cardesign.ru

 

'meet the designers': Ford Mustang from Form Trends
Meet the Designers: 2015 Ford Mustang ? Form Trends

 

the clay modelers....the creative people that really make the designs happen:
Future of auto design still in clay modelers' hands

 

So, Simcoe ascends at GM Design.

Was there more than one choice given to the board for a vote?

Who will be the #2?

Jeff

 

Sent you an email

 

Lambo Huracan sketches released.... in 2003.
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Anyone see this by Bob Cumberford?

Seven Up: No Americans Left in the Detroit Three?s Design Leadership

I believe he has some very serious errors in facts and assessments.

If I remember it correctly his firing had to do with a prank he did with the reflecting pool. A prank that was not taken for humor by the powerful.

 

Just read it.
He definitely has a personal agenda.
CMJ and he did not have a very good relationship. That's obvious with the comments about CMJ.

 

Cumberford is making factual errors and going out of his way to make character assassinations. The man is dead and he is till trying to drive a stake through his heart. The man wasn't a saint but he was certainly not the reincarnation of the devil himself either. I took it a great testament to the man that a designer at Chrysler that had gotten sideways with CMJ while at GM still went out of his way to say how much he respected CMJ for his absolutely superior design management.

Very bad form.

 

From Automotive News.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160409/OEM02/304119920/the-right-guy-to-lead-gm-design

'The right guy' to lead GM design

Simcoe knows engineering


Mike Simcoe, with the Chevrolet Aveo RS concept at the Detroit auto show in 2010, possesses a way-more-than-skin-deep knowledge of the automobile.


Richard Truett RSS feed
Automotive News
April 9, 2016 - 12:01 am ET

DETROIT -- Mike Simcoe, the 58-year-old Australian who will become only the seventh design chief in General Motors' long history, is just as comfortable discussing the engineering details of automobiles as he is swage lines, greenhouses and B-pillars.

And that may be what sets him apart from his six celebrated predecessors.

Simcoe succeeds Ed Welburn July 1 as GM's vice president of global design, the first non-American to hold the position. Welburn, who turned 65 in December, told GM this week that he is stepping down after 44 years at the company.

Of course, head of design at GM is a hallowed position -- a job first held by the nearly mythological Harley Earl. Next to selecting a new CEO, choosing a styling boss may be the most important personnel decision the company will ever make. The design leaders usually have long tenures and enormous influence.

So did GM get it right this time?

"If I had been asked to pick internally, Simcoe would have been my pick as well," said Bob Lutz, the retired GM vice chairman who worked closely with Simcoe as the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac G8 and took shape about a decade ago.


Simcoe: GM's 7th design boss



He'll push back

What sets Simcoe apart, Lutz said, is his way-more-than-skin-deep knowledge of the automobile.

"He knows the intricacies of load paths and body engineering," Lutz told Automotive News. "You could take him out of styling and put him in charge of body engineering, and it would probably work out just as well."

Lutz says Simcoe is in some ways the opposite of the dapper, soft-spoken Welburn. He'll be more confrontational than Welburn, but that is the right attitude for this era, said Lutz, who, about a decade ago, forced a reorganization that restored responsibility for design decisions to GM design staff.

"Mostly the engineers look at a clay model and say, "That's not going to work. You can't have the windshield touch-down point that far forward. It's going to be too hard to meet crash standards, and we'll need two or three more inches of overhang. You can't do this and you can't do that.'

"Well, most designers fold up their tent and say, "Really? Gee, that's too bad. That's going to spoil the car. But, yeah, if you say so.' Whereas, Mike Simcoe very politely says: "Well, what about such and such construction? Why wouldn't this work here? And look at this competitive car that has the same overhang.' He not only pushes back against the engineers, but he offers solutions. I've never seen a designer do that before," Lutz said.

Mark Reuss, GM's global product development chief, said: "Given his deep global experience and passion for breakthrough design, Michael is the right person to lead GM global design. He is known for his ability to take diverse ideas from around the world and mold then into great products that surprise and delight our customers."

Simcoe, currently vice president of design for GM International based in Australia, is a 33-year GM veteran who has held a number of top management positions.

He joined GM Holden as a designer in 1983 after earning a degree in industrial design from the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology. By 1987, Simcoe was Holden's chief designer and had a hand in every vehicle the Australian brand produced. In 1995, Simcoe's design responsibility expanded beyond Australia to include all of Asia Pacific when GM put him in charge of joint vehicles produced by GM alliance partners such as Suzuki, Daewoo, Isuzu and Fuji Heavy Industries.

In 2003, Simcoe was appointed executive director of Asia Pacific Design. Then in 2004, he became executive director for North American Exterior Design and in 2009 also brand champion for Chevrolet. During that time, Simcoe led the design development of the GMC Terrain, Buick LaCrosse, Chevrolet Camaro and Equinox and Cadillac CTS.

Simcoe's colleagues say he doesn't just focus on design as vehicles take shape. "Mike and I worked together closely on the Bolt EV," said Stuart Norris, managing director of GM Korea Design. "He pushed not just for a neat styling exercise, but he understood the significance of the product for the Chevrolet brand as a beacon of technology, design and performance."

At 58, Simcoe is one of the oldest men ever tapped to lead GM design. Chuck Jordan was a few weeks shy of 59 when he took over GM design in 1986. Simcoe will have just seven years before he reaches GM mandatory retirement age. Welburn was 52 when he took over the top job.

The first vehicles to bear Simcoe's influence will likely be concept cars shown late this year at the Los Angeles Auto Show and at the giant Specialty Equipment Market Association show in Las Vegas. The first regular production vehicles of the Simcoe era are at least 27 months away, based on product development times.



In what proved to be a historic meeting of two heads of General Motors design, the legendary Bill Mitchell greeted a young member of his design staff named Ed Welburn in the 1970s.


Challenges ahead

Simcoe inherits a design organization that ranks as the industry's largest, with 10 studios in seven countries and more than 2,500 people on the design staff. Under Welburn's tenure, the studios all adopted uniform work processes, programs and tools and work cohesively.

Among Simcoe's product challenges:

• Guiding the design of the next-generation Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups -- GM's cash cows -- due around 2018 and the heavy-duty versions expected in 2019.

• Continuing the momentum Welburn established in refining Cadillac's edgy styling, and perhaps developing a superluxury flagship in the $150,000 range for Cadillac to compete with the Bentley Continental and Mercedes-Benz Maybach.

• Recasting Buick as a more youthful brand.

• Increasing the pace of Opel's recovery with more creatively styled cars like the subcompact Opel Adam.

Norris says Simcoe uses different management styles: "At the early stages, he encourages risk taking and has a free style to new ideas around proportion, graphics and brand identity. He is open to young designers bringing a fresh perspective and is happy to see unexpected designs get developed further; from sketches into 3D models."

Kelley Blue Book analyst Karl Brauer says Simcoe also must maintain Welburn's record of creating compelling design across multiple brands and in multiple markets, create distinctive styling despite the increasingly regulatory nature of vehicle design and incorporate modern technologies in a seamless manner.

"Future vehicles will be carrying more and more cameras and sensors to deliver the safety and autonomous technology features consumers are expecting," Brauer said. "Integrating this technology without disrupting a car's overall style will require new design and production techniques."

Lutz says that although Simcoe will likely have around seven years at the top, he will be very effective, that he is very much in the mold of some of GM's legendary strong-willed design chiefs.

"Mike, at times, comes on very strong," Lutz said. "He can sound very gruff. He can alienate people because he wants to get his way. And his way, from a designer's point of view, is the right way. He's very much like Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell and Chuck Jordan. You didn't want to mess with Chuck Jordan. It could get very nasty.

"Mike Simcoe is that same kind of guy. If you want a company that is design-focused and doesn't compromise the appearance of its cars for engineering or manufacturing considerations, he's the right guy at the right time."

 

Interesting and what sounds like a good choice. Will they shut down the Australian base of GM International design when they close Holden down??

 

No, the plan is to keep the design studio there operational for the foreseeable future.

 

Hopefully Simcoe will get GM on track. I want to see them succeed but they consistently disappoint me.

Even the designs I like such as the Silverado loose me on the interior. I like the exterior of that truck but the interior is so bad I could never buy it. They've managed to improve on some of their design but their interiors still feel extremely cheap and poorly made. I just looked closely at a Z06 and it feels unbelievably "plastic" with cheap looking vents and flares on every crevice. Felt like a PowerWheels kid toy.

 

We can hope that Lutz' assessment is true that Simcoe will fight for Design. Further, hopefully, the GM organization has not neutered him in having him ascend. Time will tell.