FF engine making a ticking noise

So a few weeks ago the FF started making a ticking noise - and it was RPM dependent - subtle but definitely a new noise.

Brought it into the dealership and after about a week of diagnosing they believe it is the oil valve timing something or other, but will have to pull some panels off to determine it's location. I OKd the increase diagnosis and they now firmly believe it's the oil thing.

In order to get to it, they need to pull the engine - apparently a pretty big job and an estimated cost around $17,000.

The car is a 2012, warranty expired in March, cars has 4,000 miles on it. The car has been in for various noises in the past, some successful at eliminating, some not. This was a new noise we believe, but we are surprised by whatever this is happening at such low mileage.

Bad luck or has anyone else experienced something that led to an engine pull?

Thanks,

Chip-

 

I some times get a ticking noise that appears to be coming from the back of the car. I always think it sounds like a loose bearing but it sounds like its coming from the exhaust area. Its very RPM dependent ... always around 2000 RPM. Anything above or below and it goes away. My car is still under warranty and they already know they need to bust their ass to find out whats wrong next time the car goes in.

 

How loud is this "ticking". I am taking my 2012 FF in tomorrow for a "ticking" which sounds like very fine rain/sleet hitting the windscreen, but clearly not as this happened for the 1st time 2 weeks ago when travelling on a very sunny day. it's not a rattle or vibration, just sounds like i described above; no matter what i tap (dash/middle speaker/wimdscreen/etc) i can not replicate it in any way

is this the same as yours?

 

I think it's hard to locate and diagnose a "ticking" noise online, particularly with something like an FF with all the V12 and 4RM and gearbox plumbing.

A few reactions:

1) if your car is low miles and you've owned it forever and you're an established Ferrari, I would ask your dealer to get the FNA Regional Service rep involved - for 2 reasons: 1) you can lobby them for goodwill, especially if the car has been cared for and is just out of warranty and 2) make some additional technical resource available.

2) on the tech side, before I'd approve an engine out, I'd make damn sure you know what the problem is, primarily since you'll only know after it goes back in again. I don't know the guys at F0NE at all, but I'd suggest a second/third opinion - just make sure. While there are a lot of these engines out there now, the population is still low and there are still some "first time ever seen" problems. Focus on the right diagnosis first, then worry about working for warranty goodwill or other.

3) FWIW, $17 sounds like a lot to just R&R an engine, even in the FF. That's about 113 labor hours....so hopefully that is "all in". I'd also work with the dealer on a fixed price repair if you go that path (i.e. incent everyone to make sure the diagnosis is correct).

4) crazy idea - I wonder if you can still get the extended warranty purchased on the car? IF anything, the concept of paying $17K to pull a V12 engine a few months out of warranty makes buying the extended warranty a smart move.

5) SAFE4NOW (Steve from Boardwalk Service) is an Fchat regular, he might have some thoughts and suggestions

 

I 2nd this suggestion. I have a '07 Quattroporte that was waaaaay out of warranty when it needed the variators addressed last spring. This is a ~$7k job alone and they ended up finding a couple more things along the way. Since I had been paying up big $ for all of the scheduled and required services the previous 2 years of ownership - they lobbied for 'goodwill' and got it. FCA picked up the entire tab which was a relief. Oh, and I am the 3rd owner with the car having about 53,000 miles on it at the time. Miracles do happen.

 

I had a Enzo once with a $12K problem(call it 18 accounting for inflation), 10-11 years ago, and I shopped around and worked it out with the dealer I bought the car from. They were very cool and took care of the problem.

the dealer was Beverly Hills Ferrari, and because they were cool i mention their name. i hope that the good will they showed and I share makes what they did work out for them.

a little diplomacy can go a long way.


of course if they dont, burn them to the ground j/k lol

good luck

eric



PS: I can take a F U from anyone, i got thick skin. But a E O from a Ferrari dealer is a tough bone to swallow.

 

All of that.

A $17,000 fishing trip? No way.

 

Switch VIN's with a car under warrantee, problem solved.


Not that I ever did anything like that,,,,,,,,'clears throat',,,,,,, Saw it in a movie

 

I have 20'000KM and fortunatley a factory extended warranrty through February 2017; finger's crossed

 

Drove our FF last night, did not hear any "abnormal" ticking sounds; this is our 2nd FF and 3rd current generation engine V12, so I'm somewhat used to the different noises. For sure there are a lot of sounds, and also a massive amount of places a "tick" could originate.

I'd stress again, the most important thing to find out is what the problem is. Even if your dealer thinks they "know it", I'd get a second opinion.

I'm guessing you work with FoNE, depending on your schedule you might want to call Don Pintavalle at Miller in Greenwich, and arrange to have Leo Garcia and Lee Stayton take a look at it; both are master techs, both are astonishingly good at diagnostics and see a lot of these engines relative to other shops. An additional independent alternative (if you end up going "pay your way") is P1 Motorcars in Stamford (right near Miller). Tommy Passalacqua is the chief guru, and is very current on these engines, even if only for diagnosis.

If this was a car under warranty, I can assure you that FNA would want a very clear diagnosis before they would authorize $17K+ worth of engine work on a relatively new car; I'd take the same approach. Plus, with "evidence in hand" you'd have a more compelling case for them to perhaps help accommodate you. Plus, dealer service bays are slow this time of year, so it's a good time to "make a deal" all around.

 

You have a PM sir,

S

 

Does anyone know the outcome of this?

 

Under warranty has a mythical meaning with Ferraris thta is very hard to pin down. For Instance:

- The paint on your bumper and customer stripe has wild over spray... that's normal
- The seats you designed and agreed to pay $9K extra for, didn't show up.. not a warranty issue
-glazed brakes the make the car undriveable.. normal where and tear.\
- Harsh down****s that lock the wheels.. They added that extra for effect.. regardless if the dangers of locking your wheels up at high speed .. it's just cool

This is all very normal and expected from a $400K car.. it's the fingerprint of Enzo

Be happy and go away

 

Too funny! Yes, everything under warrantee I can assure you is normal and everything out of warrantee needs to be urgently fixed at a huge cost.

I hope the OP got things taken care of to his liking. I am extending the full warrantee 2 years on mine in the morning when I pick up from its annual. Cheaper than the engine out described above but I love the car. The V12s cost much more to extend than the V8s.

 

just turn the radio louder or get a novitec exhaust and the ticking will go away
I never do extended warranties. if something breaks fix it then.

 

The short update is that it isn't resolved as of yet. Wish I had more than that to offer up publically, but still holding out for a good outcome. Appreciate all the advice and PMs I've received.

 

Yes, over the long haul, self insurance will pay off. Do so unless it is really a risk you don;t want to take and are willing to pay someone else to take it -- after all that is what insurance is.

 

I am mildly shocked that in this day and age, there is no acoustic sensor diagnostic protocol that can be brought to bear to help pinpoint the source. A 6.3 L V12 engine out? Yuk!!

 

Lots of good advice. I agree with Entropy's points. I hate to say it but the fact pattern causes the following thought in my mind: they think they can resolve your problem and make a very nice profit for their service operation at the same time. Nothing wrong with profits, but this seems like possibly a big one and why should it be at your expense? Like Brian L said $17k for a fishing expedition is too much. I think you should begin with official channels like the dealer and FNA and see about some goodwill etc and then if that doesn't work and you have to go it alone check out an independent like P1. I would also give them high marks.

 

You have to be sh__ting me. This is 5 months on?

I'm going to guess your comment about "sharing publicly" means you're working a process, but I'd go nuts if I had a relatively new car sitting 5 months with a potential engine issue that was not resolved.

FWIW I've had my share of technical issues and "matters that may or may not be accommodated under warranty", but 5 months? I've personally seen new cars delivered, been Lemon'd, almost rebuilt in a service bay and then resold (in probably better tune than they left the factory in) in less than 5 months.

Look forward to hearing what must be some interesting twists to this story. Good luck.

 

Indeed, it has been more than 4 months and hopefully you have been able to use the car as usual. If not, I don't know how your time lost with your car can be reimbursed.

Indeed, funny but worrisome. I thought dealers get to bill FNA for services provided under warranty. Thus there is profit whether done inside or outside of warranty, right?

Have you had major repairs done and how much do they run? More likely I'll go this route because I tend to keep cars for a long time, unless there is a known potential problem that can be catastrophic. If it is beyond 12 years, there are no extended warranties available anyway. Like Brian had mentioned over and over, set aside the $6500 every year and that should cover any major needed repairs and still come out ahead.

 

The FF is very reliable according to all sources, don't be scared by one or two stories.

 

BTW, are you able to drive it meanwhile or is it sitting at the dealership during this entire time? Are you provided with a loaner car?

 

I have a 2014 FF. 16k miles. Gear box seal failed in March. Not covered by warranty. Now the engine has failed. Now out of warranty. Engine removed and the problem found to be excessive sealant used when the engine was originally built (see picture). Cylinder 8 damaged as a result with sealant clogging the oil pump leading to poor oil pressure and resultant long term engine damage. Ferrari not interested. Anyone else had this problem with excessive sealant?
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That sucks; sorry for you!
If the cause can demonstrably be due to production, then I would take Ferrari to task.
Product liability goes beyond warranty. It may just become a long-term legal issue.
The dealer should be your first point of contact in this matter.
I wish you much success!!