308 pedal positions (and heel-toeing)

Still getting to know my new 308 (pictures still to come soon). I absolutely love the experience of shifting through the gears with the gated shifter, but on my car the accelerator pedal is at least an inch or two deeper (farther away from me) than the brake pedal, which makes it nearly impossible to rev match by heel-toeing.

Is this is the same on everyone's 308? Is it possible to adjust the accelerator pedal forward to enable heel-toeing? Or, does anyone know of an aftermarket pedal setup that enables it? Thanks!

 

Your methodology is wrong. Italian car pedal placement is made for heel and toe driving.

 

Don't think of it as "heal and toe", it's more "toe and right side of foot".

 

My '78 GTB pedal arrangement is perfect for heel/toe. Although I must admit the overall driving position doesn't help as my legs are quite splayed around the wheel, would probably be easier if I was a couple of inches shorter - I'm only six foot, hardly a giant. Definitely designed with Mr Archetypal Italian bloke in mind!

 

Guys, I know how to heel-toe. It's not my technique.

Just went out and measured. My accelerator pedal is a full 3.5 inches deeper than the brake pedal. It is impossible to heel-toe with this configuration.

I also did an image search of 308 pedals and it seems like the accelerator pedal is typically at about the same depth of the brake pedal on other 308s. Not sure why mine is so different.

 

Tommy,

I actually find it the opposite in my '85. I have always split the pedals in Audi, Porsche and BMW cars by tipping the right side of my foot. I find that I cannot do that at all in the 308 and am trying to learn to heel-and-toe the old school way: dead center of the ball of my foot on the brake pedal, internal rotation at the hip to heel the bottom of the throttle using the metal plate on the center console as a backboard.

Beau LeBlanc

 

Here's what I'm talking about. It's hard to tell from this picture because the pedals are laterally spaced from each other, but the accelerator pedal is "slumped" way behind the brake pedal -- about 3.5 inches at the height of the brake pedal. It appears that the pedal may be adjustable at the bottom. Maybe an inch or so travel at the bottom would make up the 3.5 inches at the height of the brake pedal?

As for technique, I like to place the left side of the ball of my foot on the right side of the brake pedal and the right edge/heel of my foot on the accelerator pedal when I heel-toe. It works well in most cars I've driven.
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Not suggesting it but you could put a thicker gas pedal cover to bring it closer match to the brake pedal.

 

Impossible??

I guess I haven't been doing it for the last 30+ years then.

No pedal adjustments or modifications required. Besides, there is no adjustment for upward travel.

 

Raise the steering wheel. Very easy.

 

Are your pedals offset as much as mine are? If not, we're not working with the same setup.

I'd like to avoid "padding" the pedal until I confirm that the pedal is in the correct position. As I think about it, it's difficult to go full throttle because the pedal has to be pressed so deep into the footwell. I have to fully extend my leg and point my toes all the way forward to get it there, and I have long legs. This, combined with the pedal offset, seems to indicate that the pedal is not in the correct position.

 

It is correct.

You should drive some of the 275 and 330's. I have a foot extension that I am told some ballerinas do not have. My foot goes beyond 180 degrees from my shin and some of those were still difficult to press the pedal to the stop.

 

Going back from memory, I did find it not as convenient as with other cars. While not appropriate for the track, and it was a hassle to change from dress shoes to driving shoes, I just found it better driving without shoes.

 

Hill Engineering makes that pedal set with the wider gas pedal. I am able to span the gap with the OEM pedals but I have pretty wide feet.


PS01HT - Pedal Set by: Hill Engineering - Hill Engineering Ferrari

 

You can get these from Ricambi here in the US for $120 + SH. Same Part No: PS01 for the standard Accelerator Pedal and PS01HT for the wider pedal, same price I think.

 

I will also say that on many modern cars the placement of pedals is more even, so you might be used to something else and easier.

 

Okay, well if my pedal position is correct for the car, I need to work on sinking my heel deep past the brake pedal to blip the throttle. Even if it's not impossible, it sure is awkward, at least for my foot/ankle/leg -- I couldn't even touch the pedal when I tried it before (although I only tried it once).

I'm still going to look into adjusting the pedal position. Again, it appears that the angle of the pedal can be adjusted. Currently, the pedal leans forward toward the firewall. If I can get it a little closer to upright, I'm thinking it'd be a lot easier to reach for blipping, and easiser to achieve full throttle.

Edit: Also, the pedal is convex and curves away from you along its height. Maybe a straight pedal, like used in most modern cars, would help as well. Will check out Hill's offerings.

 

Brake harder and it will get easier.....

 

Found a solution (yes, this is a joke):
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How much play do you have on your brake pedal?

 

Just checked my car and the brake pedal is about 2.5 inches in front of the throttle pedal.

 

Not much play with the brake pedal, which is good.

I just checked again. I could reach the pedal if I really twisted my foot and was on the very edge of the brake pedal. It's still quite a stretch, and my foot slipped off the brake pedal once while making that stretch. Not good. If I had another inch like you have (I'm at 3.5 in. to your 2.5 in.), it would be A LOT easier to reach the pedal with the edge of my foot. Maybe I can make up that inch difference with adjustment and/or a flat pedal.

 

Hi Dave, you not crazy. The gas pedal does seem to far awkwardly recessed for heal and toe driving in your 308, as in mine, my gas pedal is about 1 1/2 inches recessed back. I have been trying to learn to heel and toe drive and it seem weird and uncomfortable, but I'm a newb to heal and toe driving, so what do I know.

 

Dave,

I have a 328 and am guessing the configuration is a little different. When I am on the brake at close to threshold, it is on the same plane as the gas pedal (not sure about at rest) so very easy for rev matching on downshift.

I know you rejected this idea in an earlier post, but if you can not adjust, consider adding to the pedal. I had an Audi where there was a large difference between the brake and gas (a 2004 S4). I think Audi was doing this as they did not want to get burned with unintended acceleration as they did with the 5000 ( I think that was determined to be driver error mistaking the brake for the gas). Anway, big difference between the two pedals in that car. I resolved by purchasing a very nice replacement custom gas pedal from Ultimate Pedals. I secured it with spacers to the original gas pedal. Looked great and got it to precisely the height and separation I wanted. If you find current position is "correct" and can not be adjusted, you may want to consider a fix like this.

 

I'm not completely opposed adding to the pedal. If I did this though, I'd want to be sure that it was really secure. Obviously, pedals falling apart under your feet while driving could be a very bad thing!