F355 suspension and alignment experts please help | FerrariChat

F355 suspension and alignment experts please help

Discussion in '348/355' started by Redlyne_mr2, Apr 17, 2016.

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  1. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
    471
    Calgary, Alberta
    Full Name:
    Ryan D
    My 355 is lowered on factory coilovrrs with h and r springs. I am running 19 inch wheels with a very aggressive offset. Last year I hit a rather large pothole and threw off my alignment. The impact was hard enough that I was worried about suspension damage but thankfully everything seems to be ok. the ferrari dealership in town is going through some staffing turmoil so they werent able to get my car in for an alignment. I ended up taking the car to a highly recommended independent shop (unfamiliar with Ferraris however ). They are now having issues aligning my car and getting the camber dialed in to what my setup was before the pothole. They even scared me a bit saying my subframe might be tweaked. I've taken 40 different measurements of my subframe and all seems to be fine, no signs of Damage or bends.

    The posts to follow will include pics of the car and suspension. The height of each rear coilover is different and that would seem to be the reason why one side has lots of negative camber and is straight up and dangerously close to my fender. The shop claims lowering the car will not camber in the wheels but I disagree. Should the shop not have evened out my ride height first before the alignment ?

    Thank you for the help im really stressing as my car is not driveable with the current setup
     
  2. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
    471
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    Ryan D
    #2 Redlyne_mr2, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This picture will show the good side.. Notice the wheel is tucked giving me clearance when driving . On this side the coilovers are almost at their lowest.
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  3. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
    471
    Calgary, Alberta
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    Ryan D
    #3 Redlyne_mr2, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is the coilover on the drivers side, as mentioned it's almost at its lowest point. I would assume that by having it at its lowest point this is allowing the top of the wheel to tuck thanks to the negative camber
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  4. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
    471
    Calgary, Alberta
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    Ryan D
    #4 Redlyne_mr2, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
    471
    Calgary, Alberta
    Full Name:
    Ryan D
    #5 Redlyne_mr2, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
    471
    Calgary, Alberta
    Full Name:
    Ryan D
    #6 Redlyne_mr2, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
    471
    Calgary, Alberta
    Full Name:
    Ryan D
    #7 Redlyne_mr2, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is the car before the pothole, passenger side is nice and tucked


    The biggest question I have is:

    If I even out my coilover position on each side should i see some improvement on clearance? It seems that when you lower the 355 suspension you gain a lot of negative camber.

    Thanks for the help
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  8. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
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    #8 WATSON, Apr 18, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
    I am horrible at suspension geometry. But some thoughts...

    1. I would set the rear perches equal on each side. Measure up from the bottom of the shock and set them exactly the same. If the wheels are different side to side once that is done, I would begin to research why...

    2. Did you bend the rim on that pothole? I would have that rim checked for true.
     
  9. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
    471
    Calgary, Alberta
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    Ryan D
    Yup I did bend the wheel, had to get a new wheel. I'm with you, I'm going to make everything even and see what it's like from there. I just don't get how the shop I brought it to could have missed this
     
  10. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,734
    I fear that the rear subframe has been tweeked. This means you may need to shim the subframe up where it attaches to the chassis in order to get both rear tires inside the fenders.

    Then, after that, you need a full ride height and corner weighting prior to suspension alignment.
     
  11. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Richmond
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    with the H&R springs, I set my fronts to maximum ride height and then the rears to match (f&r ride heights the same), which ended up at around half way up. I had it aligned to factory specs and it handles very well. That said, I do have adjustable upper rear control arms, which may make a difference in (the ease of) aligning it. It was close so the shop just shimmed to get it spot on, but I have a feeling the uppers were already adjusted out some as the car was severely lowered before I got it, hence the need for the adjustables to dial out some of the camber.
     
  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    If you hit a pot hole and it went out of alignment something bent or broke. Check ball joint, lower control arm mounting point, lower control arms, etc.
     
  13. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Like they said you may have tweeked the engine cradle / subframe


    Take a look at the body panels. Look for a bow in the quarter panels or sheetmetal that dont look symmetrical side to side. look for fresh cracks in paint on the top of the frame where it meets the quarter panels, remove those engine side covers to get a good look.




    The way you can sudo check this at home is

    Put car on level a ground as possible
    Put car on 4 jackstands on the uniframe not the engine cradle equally
    Now get behind the car and measure the height to ground on each side of the engine subframe to see it one side is higher then the other


    I know you measured 40 + spots but if the cradle is tweeked in a way it will read all good but height will be off causing this.

    The absolute best way is a 3D measuring system from a body shop. May be worth a couple hundred dollars to get it checked


    Hope this helps and good luck :)
     
  14. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
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    Calgary, Alberta
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    Ryan D
    Ive checked it, I've had 3 shops check it. No one can find any signs of subframe issues. Mitch, you sound confident in understand the rear chassis of a 355, what makes you think I need to shim it and why?

    Theoretically, I'm hoping by evening out each coilover ill get rid of this problem. Im just hoping for an answer from someone on here to support or decline my theory.
     
  15. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Forgot to ask

    Pre accident were the coilovers set at same?
     
  16. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
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    Good question,
    pre accident the coilovers were like this. I had them equal when I originally sent the car to the Ferrari dealership for the alignment the first time, they adjusted and corner balanced everything there, visually and alignment wise the car was perfect.

    Accident happens, everything gets thrown off. The shop does not even out the coilovers prior to alignment so I'm assuming that's why were having so many issues now.
     
  17. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    #17 SoCal1, Apr 18, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
    Something is not right at all here. dont panic.

    You going to need to go to square 1 and start all over. Springs should not be that far off thats a good inch

    Verify correct shocks and springs at each corner before going anywhere.


    Like I stated earlier
    If the shocks springs are correct you have a height issue in the engine cradle, best bet would ask the shop to do a 3d measuring of the cradle
    They may not be able to get the frame sheets for a 355 but they sure as hell can square centerline the unibody then take measurements on the cradle to see if it's sagging or swayed to one side. My guess it has a bit of sag on one side before you got the car. Not uncommon with this design car to happen.
    If it does while its on the machine they can easily correct it.

    This is extremely hard if not impossible to diagnose by looking at pictures, dimensions need to be taken dynamically.
     
  18. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2014
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    Maybe the new wheel was a different size? possible miss labeled? try switching sides L to R
     
  19. Jackie and bill

    Jackie and bill Formula Junior

    Nov 29, 2014
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    I thought that, but then realized that the tyres would say the size and a 19 tyre would not fit an 18 or 20 rim. ;)
    Strange problem never the less.
     
  20. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 9, 2010
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    Offset different perhaps?
     
  21. INRange

    INRange F1 World Champ
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    I'm just wondering if something else was going on before the pothole. That was a pretty large spring adjustment which gives the impression.....something might have been damaged before you hit the pothole and it has gotten worse as a result.

    As others have said, you just need to go back to square one. I know it is frustrating given the number of times you have had the suspension checked. BTW what did they say the problem was? Or did they just say: "everything is fine.....355s always list to one side".
     
  22. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
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    Calgary, Alberta
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    Ryan D
    I didn't think to check wheel size, I will just to eliminate that variable.

    The alignment shop was able to get the car to align but they couldn't get the wheel on the passenger side to tuck like the drivers side using equal amounts in negative camber.

    They were quick to mention subframe as well but what frustrates me is that they didn't touch the coilovers and bring everything back to square one. The Ferrari alignment was perfect and they obviously adjusted the coilovers to make it that way. Once I hit the pot hole that through all those original specs out the window.
     
  23. Jackie and bill

    Jackie and bill Formula Junior

    Nov 29, 2014
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    Valid point. And that could well be it :) fingers crossed.
     
  24. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    You cant blame them for trying not to open a can of worms here going back to square one.
    With shocks set at different height something is not correct. If you told them go for it and they are a quality shop they would mount the car and measure away leaving NOTHING up to guessing whats wrong.

    Once a car is mounted and measured as expensive as that is, $300-500 expect another $300 or so for correction if needed and additional for removing parts for access and not to break anything in the way.


    Just because you can get the car to align in some specks does not mean it is correct. Road manors will suffer.

    If this repair was in my shop I would have you sign a waiver that the car is not in a safe state and not recommended to drive before I released it like that.

    I personally have 4 355 engine cradles 2 of them are bent, not by much but bent. They are very fragile to impact to absorb energy.
     
  25. Redlyne_mr2

    Redlyne_mr2 Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2009
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    Calgary, Alberta
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    Ryan D
    Ive spent $600 already only for them to tell me they cant do anything else. The costs aren't as important as finding the issue. I just don't get why they didn't bring all back to square one.
     

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