Red Bull whinging justified with TAG-Heuer progress?

Red Bulls whinging over the last 1.5 seasons about the Renault (lack of) development has been well documented and deeply criticized by most. Red Bull has since made a deal with Renault and TAG that they use only parts of the Renault power unit and developed the rest themselves. It was done at zero hour, though I'm sure they've been working at it ''just in case'' for at least half of 2015. Nevertheless, Renault is now back as a factory team.

Especially in the previous race, we saw how rapid the RBR-TAG is, whilst renault themselves are standing still. IMO, for a customer team beating a factory team at their own engine game is quite note-worthy, and the frustrations Red Bull had last year are to a certain degree justified. Had renault not been sitting with a thumb up their rear, RBR likely would have finished 3rd in the championship with relative ease, and certainly would've bagged a few more podiums.

Lets not forget that even during their championship years, the Renault was the least powerful engine there was, and it was Red Bull's efforts that allowed them to win the championships. IMO Renault was lucky to ride along and share the glory, which they complained about not being exposed enough.

 

Keep in mind the abyss Mercedes fell into after taking over Brawn GP. As with Lotus last year, Brawn had little potential to develop for the following season. Mercedes was (and has still been laughed about) always clear about the long-term plan. Renault said the same, that they will need to build the team first. Look where Mercedes is now.

And the one part where Renault had a strong department already established was the PU development.

How much TAG Heuer contributes, I don't know. I would somewhat doubt it being a game changer compared to the Renault engine. If things were so simple Renault should have been capable enough.

 

Yes they whined. Justified? Yes. Manner of doing it was not so great. The TAG motor is just a Renault. Renault are doing well for engines.

It shows how good the Red Bull chassis is and Ferrari and Mercedes know they did the right thing not to sell motors.

It would be all Red Bull all the time and they know it. At least Red Bull would be challenging and probably winning at least!

 

I think I should clarify that I strictly meant the PU. TAG engine was keeping everyone honest. Renault (previous Lotus) has been dog **** for a number of years now so I didn't expect any real development there.

Red Bull's annoyances with Renault was the speed of engine development, many engine failures and when an development did come, it barely worked or the engine broke a bit sooner. AFAIK TAG does a lot of the hybrid systems on the car and it looks to work a lot better than Renault's own work, even though renault has vastly more experience in this field over the past 2 seasons. TAG making Renault look a bit foolish.

 

I bet there is not a big difference (if any) between the Renault and the (ahem) TAG engines.

The real difference is that the Renault engine is installed in a chassis desgined by an almost broke team and hacked in the last minute to use a different engine while the TAG is in the chassis built by the team with the biggest budget and desgined with that engine already in mind. Williams and Manor use the same engine and they´re in different leagues, even when Williams is running with a fraction of the budget of Red Bull.

And again, Renault deserves credit for the Red Bull titles. Their engine had less power in a time when all the engines where frozen so the differences were not that big. Meanwhile, the Renault had fewer cooling requirements and was good at blowing diffusers, making Adrian Newey look smarter than he already is.

 

Brundle said there is no difference at all between them. They are Renault PU's. Renault have had some time to get this PU developed and its showing. So much so Red Bull will continue its relationship with Renault no matter the badging of the motor according to the press and SKY in the recent past. Of course that could all change and quickly.

If this motor is somehow different please elaborate as the press and others are saying it is simply a Renault PU.

 

What made Red Bull frustrated, was the inability to optimize the PU for their car with the new regulations. They wanted Renault to go a direction that Renault did not go, as to do so, would of compromised Renault's other teams they supplied to.

If the engines hadn't of been locked, and Red Bull had of been able to continue to give input on the PU, the whole snafu likely wouldn't of happened.

Renault wouldn't of designed such an engine if Red Bull hadn't of asked for it...

 

Then, there is nothing to complain about: Renault built exactly what they needed.

Yet, when Red Bull switched from Ferrari to Renault one of the reasons given was that the Renault needed less cooling, so the base was already there. The Renault engine also was good at blowing diffusers not because Adrian Newey asked for it, but because already before the blowing diffuser was invented they had some reliabilty issues that they fixed making the engine blow gasses when off-throttle, so it was somewhat a serendipity.

 

Genius marketing move by Renault! Now everybody must be saying Renault engines suck so bad even a watch maker in just one year can make something better!

 

Renault must be banging their heads against the wall right about now if indeed the PU in the RB is the same as in their works team...

 

IMO Renault have barely any development time since taking over Lotus
One has got to give them a pass this season and hold them to a higher
standard on 2017 and yet an even higher one for 2018.Don't see a
justification of the camparo's in this season - just saying

 

They've had the chance/time to develop their engine since 2013. Chassis/aero excuse is granted, obviously. Engine no.

 

True the have screwed that up badly