New gtc4 12v will be a collector car?

The 2+2 V12s generally have not been huge sellers in terms of volume.

Even if the V12 Lusso is only a two year run, I'm not sure that is enough to make it a collector car in terms of the legendary models.

Look at the 612, 612 sessante, or FF --all of whom are NA V12s -- are they collector cars? Time will tell.

The Enzo, LaFerrari, LaFerrari spider--those are already accepted as collector cars.

The next group in terms of collectibility are the special last year send off models. 360 Challenge Stradale, the Scud, the Speciale, the Aperta, the Barchetta, the 599 GTO, the TDF etc these cars resist the depreciation of the standard models which they are based on and may appreciate over time.

Just My opinion.

All Of these cars are special!

 

4 seater Ferrari's often are (or used to be) more expensive to purchase but will never hold their value like the more sporty models.

Pete

 

Even now they're chopping 50 years old 250 GTEs to build replicas, go figure. I see lots of fake F60 Americas, F12 TRS and F12 tdf based on FFs in the distant future.

 

The FF is looking better to many people by the day because of the GTC4. Especially if what you say is true. Give it 4-5 years to come around. Yet really, why bother with this game of speculation. If you love the car, get it, never bet on a 4 seat GT for an investment.

 

So far in the UK 220 FFs have been sold to 1st Jan 2016. Compare that to the 612 where 253 were sold in total over a longer period. The F12 sold 290 to 1st Jan 2016 and its predecessor the 599 sold 314 excluding the GTO. These figures would suggest each and every incarnation was received with much the same enthusiasm.

The thing that doesn't surprise me though is that although the Lusso has been hailed by many the early orders, so far, may not match that of the FF where there was an initial stampede to get one resulting in over 110 units sold in 2012 due to its groundbreaking customer driven design. Time will tell.

 

Highly doubt they will drop the V12 in lieu of an V8 They may offer the V8 as an additional
option.Naming it Lusso does not guarantee anything but does no harm either IMO
But if the V12's of the future go turbo then all NA V12's will be in play to go up in Value

 

Does that include my 2002 456M GT

 

Where are you hearing this?? Last I read was 9000 by 2019. If they want to go over 10000 a year in 20, 21, etc then yes it has to happen. And I would think offering both would be bad for the smaller engine unless it was a lot cheaper, which is against the brand/product identity at present

Bottom line, are they going for growth in a typically corporate way now, or is 9000 ok as a plateau?

 

One approach is by shortening the model lifespan and selling more cars every year.

This is possible when there are waiting lists which hinge on beautiful designs exterior and interior. Of course there needs to be increases in performance too.

The V8 production models would be the sharp end of the stick

 

Sure buddy

 

From 2013, everything increased. Even three wheelers with Fred Flintstone engines. With anything other than ultra rare models, the values expressed today are as robust as straw huts in a tropical storm.

 

FFs have continued to go straight down here in the USA. there might be some stabilization of prices like we have seen in 456 and 612 but I wldnt call them collectible. I wldnt buy a lusso thinking its going to be collectible. buy one because you are going to drive the crap out of it

 

I think the only difference is the FF was the first digital V12 followed closely by the F12. ie direct injection, carbon brakes standard, twin clutch gearbox, 7year service plan, Upto 12 year extended factory warranty, reliability virtually bullet proof etc etc.

All before were analogue and had fearsome issues for the second hand purchaser which reflected in the price. 612 is a cracking car with great street presence but drinks like a fish and early examples are expensive to maintain in top condition. But now they are being sought out in the UK with only a dozen or so for sale and prices on the up.

 

Being very tempted by my supplier to order the Lusso. Very attractive trade in and good deal on options but there is something nagging away at me regarding the Lusso.

Firstly it looks an over adorned cake from the rear and I can't help but see a Corvette / Scirrocco love child. Secondly the crease line in the rear quarter C pillar looks cheap. Thirdly the indent in the bonnet just doesn't float my boat. Fourthly the plastic air vents are Hyundi standard and that annoys me. Fithly it looks more like an estate car than the FF with all its critics. Sixthly the door cards are moulded and don't look hand made. Seventhly I don't need or want four wheel steering for the kind of touring I do. Eigthly the wheel is already small enough so why would I get juiced up over a smaller one. Ninethly I've not met many FF owners who are so dissatisfied with their mount they are aching to change so f..k it I'll keep my beloved FF and get it another stable mate just to scratch my need to spend itch.

 

Different strokes for ..... I never was crazy about the FF but really like the Lusso and am buying one as my daily driver. The rear treatment is much better, the front more aggressive and the new interior and electronics makes the FF's look dated and last generation. Can't wait to drive it, I'm sure the 5 years of updated technology will make it vastly superior.

 

Collectable? Highly unlikely, in fact no.

 

Can you defend this as anything more than "I like the look"?

Better rear end. Why? Because it looks like everything at Whole Foods? How is the 4 light Lusso not a combination of dated and Japanese?
New interior ... there are some cheap parts, ugly fonts on a busy wheel. What's better? The touch screen! Yes. What else?
Vastly superior tech ... in what categories is the FF lacking in terms of tech?

 

No.

True collector cars will always only be the 50's 60's era, everything else is just speculation.

 

Rear:
I find the rear end of the FF is rounded and bulbous, almost like the Panamera. I like the squared off, muscular look, and the two rear lights on the Lusso look better in my opinion, to each his own.

Interior:
The dash and instrumentation is a generational change and done in great taste. It makes the FF's interior look old. As far as the individual ("cheap parts") components, I usually opt to upgrade to carbon and am using the new Couio Tuscana upgraded naturally tanned leather.

Technology:
The drive control dynamics are vastly improved, it a whole different setup with the side slip control . The torque is being transferred up to 90% to any outside wheel, and there are several other improvements, read the specs. Engine is improved and exhaust is now 6 into 1.

Anyways, I am buying a Lusso, if you're satisfied with your horse, continue to ride it. The FF was and is a great car, but now there's a better one!

 

Easy now, that opinion will only be known as a fact in 5-10 years. The drivetrain is the only area where that is a fact. No doubt.

The overall design is piecemeal, IMO, just like every other car sold on features. If newer was better your car's rear end would look new, not the old 4 lights + every overhang rear window at Whole Foods.

Enjoy

 

Why does anyone need a reason to have an opinion on what is aesthetically pleasing to them, Brian? I like the Lusso deign better. There is no right or wrong, my friend. That is why it is called an opinion. And I've never even been in a Whole Foods.


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I agree. I like the Lusso design better also, but I don't think my opinion = fact. Its just how I see it. You are entitled to see it your way.

 

You didn't know Brian is the only one holding the TRUTH?

Seriously, most people here like the new design better form the pics especially. Waiting to see the real thing to form a final opinion here... Yes it is less risky design but you can't blame Ferrari, they took so much criticism on the FF that they had to go mainstream.

 

Clearly no one has ever been in an art or design class. Discussing choices is normal for professional artists and lovers of design.

Are we here to say "I love it" and expect no reply except a high five? That's very 12 years old IMO.

Most people like McDonalds over quality food, doesn't make it better.
Thanks for admitting the design is tame, as I could post 30 photos of cars at Whole Foods that have this rear end feel and overhang, sans prancing horse.
Is the truth that Ferrari has lost it's desire to be creative and unique? Or was this just the best they could do with the feedback they got?

The FF sales were not bad, the company profits are not bad. Why do you think this was intentional vs. a newbie design mistake? Integration of ideas is key to great design. I see parts plastered on to each other.