I'm not a big fan of Haggerty with their valuations always seeming to be very late to the party. But it was interesting to see that they have applied a $50k value addition (you could call it a fuel tax surplus like for the airlines) for gated manual 360's. I'm not aware of Haggerty valuing gated manual F355 differently from F1 models . I'm sure we can all apply a premium to other gated cars like the 575, 599, F430, 612 or 456. Not sure Haggerty has done this with them either. Take note: I'm not bashing the 360's as there are many things to like about that model as well as the F355. And please read that line again so the thread's angle makes sense. But look at the production numbers: F355 gated manual - berlinetta - 3,829 F355 gated manual - gts - 2,048 F355 gated manual - spider - 2,664 All other F1/355 - 1,042 / 529 / 1,053 - 2,624 Approx Total - 11,273 360 gated manual - modena - 2,630 360 gated manual - spider - 2,119 All other F1/360 including CS - 12,918 Approx Total - 17,667 Why is Haggerty applying a value addition and not doing it across the board to all gated manual models? So twice as many gated manual F355 than 360 gated manuals but per individual model, they aren't that different, are they? 2,664 gated manual spiders vs 2,119 gated manual spiders if you see what I mean. So as usual, I'm not sure that I understand haggerty's logic. I can't even really see it as a percentage reason of total production to add a premium. I can understand a "rare" combo but 2,000 spiders of either model and prices per Haggerty would be around $130k for the 360 vs what $70k for the F355? Similar numbers produced. Buyers want a 360 that much more or is this purely a speculation / flipping thing? We've covered maintainence pluses and minuses for both 360 and F355 and they aren't that different overall. So what is it Haggerty bases its numbers on? Asking prices for some 360 gated manuals have been going up regularly and some are at $200k. I'm not saying they are getting those asking prices and I'm not opposed to that occurring. Buyers and sellers both figure out what the market is. Just trying to understand how a premium can be applied for some manual cars over an F1 by Haggerty but not in the case of the F355. Asking prices for gated manual F355 are definitely more than F1 cars... Thoughts on this and Haggerty? I'm sure this affects ALL of us with insurance - is Haggerty just doing this for higher premiums? Robb
So they just added that as well? Hadn't seen any talk of it. Good to hear there is some method to the madness. So how does that affect realistic closing prices for F1 cars? Do values and asking prices now go up on Gated cars or down on F1 cars? Or a little of both given equal mileage and condition? Or does this affect asking prices at all and only apply to insurance? Thanks. Robb
If anyone thinks adding $30,000 to a 355 price because it has a 6 speed transmission, I have bridge for sale in Brooklyn just for them. But Hagerty seems intent on destroying any pricing credibility they may have had. Today's screen shot of a 1998 355 Spider using the valuation tool: Image Unavailable, Please Login
I almost posted the same pic Watson posted The hard part is if you EVER sell your MT 355, is convincing the new buyer he (she) is stealing it from you when you tack $20 K premium on the price for the stick.
how much is Hagerty's values impacted by "stated value" policies? for instance, if Hagerty thinks a 355 is worth $100k, but they have a stack of "stated value" policies at $130-150k, does Hagerty change their base valuation in response?
Great point....and maybe why they add $30,000 for 6 speed. The guys with 6 speeds add that sum as they "feel" that is what they want for a stated value replacement cost versus an F1 version. Real? Uhm no....but hey, what does Hagerty know so that's what gets posted.
Coming from the 308 section for years this whole thing is funny to me. When prices skyrocketed on the 308's a couple years ago it was endless threads like this. Owners of the actual car that has gone UP in value arguing that they're not worth this much.. haha ahh you have to laugh.
Strange isn't it, we also have owners only talk about how much they dont like their car and almost every other brand is better, yet the still own the Ferrari and complain when they could trade straight up for the car that they say is better. I guess some people are only happy when they are unhappy and complaining, whatever, life is too short for that nonsense.
We have all been waiting for the moment where M6s became "more collectible" than F1s. Perhaps the time has finally come.
But if they are going to add a premium why not add the REAL premium... Last time I checked a gated manual 575m is selling FAR more than a 50k difference over an F1 model... I'm not sure that I see gated manual 355's selling 30k more than the F1. More like 10k. But maybe haggerty's VALUES on all 355 (and other F-cars) have been so low for so long they are trying to catch up. Sorry to waste your time since most agree haggerty is worthless. I should have just made that the title and not added any more thought to it. Robb
Guys, while I agree that models with rare numbers for gated cars are selling at a premium, I don't think this really applied to the 355 that has far more gated cars than F1. I happen to own both and love both. For the gated fans, please stop doing everything you can to pull any data (relevant or not) that gated cars are worth more. It's a tiresome argument already. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. This reminds me of religion: non religious people could care less what others believe but religious people always want to try to convert the non believers. No offense to any religious folks. Gated guys, please give this a rest, it's really old. Not to mention the "95 is a better year argument" Why don't we start to appreciate all 355 variants for the great cars they are regardless of tops and shifters?
I'm not trying to Sabre rattle. I like both. Taz and Dave's cars showed me how good they can be. Haggerty's base numbers or premiums are wrong for both gated or F1 based on real world sales and asking prices. That affects insurance premiums and when you go to buy, finance, or sell. That is the disservice. The thread is trying to show the absurdity of haggerty. That's all. Everyone here is smart enough to see with their own eyes what cars are selling for with asking prices. It's not an F1 vs gated thing for me. I'd be happy to trade my '95b for the same F1 berlinetta in my long sought after color - any blue, or now Rosso barchetta. Robb
I appreciate all 355's. Doesn't matter a single bit to me if gated is worth more than F1 or otherwise. And 95 is only a better year if you like more horsepower As for Hagerty of course their numbers will lag behind the actual market, they must of course be observed and not prophetic. Agreed that much of it is very far from reality but interesting to see what they view as trends.
"Just happy to be here, hope I can help the team. I shift 'em one gear at a time." Happen to own a gated '95 because I've always loved that old-school sense of direct control (even with all its limitations). I'd happily drive an F1 if that chance comes up; gotta think both experiences are pretty damned exhilarating.
This is why Haggerty is just a data point to use, not the final determinant. They may not even be that credible depending on the source of their data. Is it just owner policy limit valuations? Do they even track real transactions? I'd rather believe Ferrari Market Letter, or the auction data, once smoothed for abnormal transactions (drunk ones, extreme examples, etc.).
If I have the worlds only rotten egg. It does not mean the rotten egg is valuable. The whole thing with the gated shift is there are not new Ferrari's with gated shift entering into the market place. The 50+ age group grew up thinking sports cars had manual shift and with wife had the automatic. Bottom line is there is fixed number of gated 6 speed Ferrari's out there. The demand for them is growing. The number of F1 shifting Ferrari's increases everyday. More to choose from.
