F12 TDF

I got a chance to see the F12 TDF up close this weekend at the Pinehurst Concours d'Elegance. Nice ride. The sticker was $591K+. They started it up a few times. Love the sound of a V12.
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its a bargain

 

Beautiful car.. but as a V12 it'll depreciate to half in 5 years. I'll pick one up then.

 

TDFs will likely be selling for over $1million in the secondary market, those things are amazing!

 

Saw one today in person for the first time... absolutely stunning (bianco fuji). Beautiful car!

 

50 years from now with close to zero mileage on the dial or when apes decide to take over the earth...

 

interesting - what do you think they'll trade for in the secondary?

 

Look at the Speciale Apertas for sale right now. Asking prices are more than double their sticker price, so its not far fetched to think that F12 TDFs will be at or around 1 Million.

 

and low mile gtos are high 7s/low 8s

 

I don't think we will see one for less than $1 million here in the US.

 

Indeed. Asking prices are high. Also, american allocations are lower in number than most other markets, so supply is lower than demand.

If you want a clear indication of real market values, look elsewhere. I know people in Europe and Middle East selling their Apertas now at $100k loss...walking in to their local showroom to buy (In Stock) 488's from their dealers.

Obviously the TDF will hold its value better cause of the way they invited select clients to purchase. But there are owners there right now who are willing to sell their TDF at the same price they paid to purchase and register (including taxes).

Markets are relative gentlemen. Paying $1mil for a used TDF is poor judgement IMO. Then again...you can't bring/register a Euro Spec car to North America, so to each his own.

 

That ocean of carbon under the hood is a real delight to watch

 

Pls point me to tdf for sale near sticker in Europe. PM welcome.

 

I know of a red one that's fully loaded and a little over delivery miles in the Middle East. Its a European Spec car though so it can't be registered in North America. Another thing to consider is that the owner paid the customs tax and registration which comes out to 60% on top of the cars original value of approximately $400k+.

So you are looking at roughly $700k +/-.

If you keep your eyes open in the region, you are bound to find better deals without the customs tax

 

Would be interested in the Apertas you refer to where can I find at $100k below retail?

 

Due to the war in Syria, a lot of countries in the Middle East are facing a mini recession. Lebanon is a prime example. Real estate market is the worst its been in recent history. Tourism is also at an all time low. Considering that they do not have any natural resources, and depend on those two industries, people are not very comfortable at the moment. Cash flow is terrible and assets are not selling to provide any relief.

As a result, the luxury market has bottomed out. Its a buyer's market. Even the local Ferrari dealer is not taking any trade ins from customers. Yet, they manage to sell their entire yearly quota of V8's and V12's due to the small size of the country. Customers who want to buy a new model from the dealer are either adding new vehicles to their garages, or are forced to search for sellers in the local market. Hence...the advantage for buyers.

Two things to consider...

1. Cars there are Euro Spec

2. Look for cars that have not paid the 60% customs tax. A lot of people there have found a way to avoid the tax...at least temporarily.

Local premium used car dealers would be a great place to start. Massive inventory at the moment.

Neighbouring countries seem to be doing better, as they are less affected by the turbulence in the region. Prices in those countries are higher, and their cars come GCC spec so they are more difficult to register in EU and NA.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread. Sorry...ill let you get back to it.

 

Of course when the replacement F12 is available in a year , we will see an effect on the market price for a TDF.

Would you rather buy a brand new F12 replacement with your own spec or pay a million more for a used TDF?

I'd get the replacement car. Still love the TDF but not enough to spend a million more.

Also the high prices of limited production Ferraris are a bit misleading. 3 million Enzo's 4million LaFerraris aren't trading hands in seconds with quick clicks of a mouse. Those deals take a lot longer and experience a lot more negotiating than the shiny Internet ads suggest

 

And likely not for ~~2 years either.

 

You are basing your market comment on the Lebanese or other ME countries?

i see 7 458 SA on Autoscout24, between 529k and up to 773k Euros.
There are 4 TDF, with the cheapest one at 870k Euros (1400 miles).

Same thing on Mobile.de.

I am sorry but the only indicators are the European markets and the US markets. Everything else is too specific to matter.


I personally think that the first US spec TDF to be offered on the market will have an ask of around $1.2m.

 

$591K+ already??

 

I am basing my comments on a few examples out of 1,000+ cars. But all i need is one car...so all i need is one example. If you value the money you work hard for, you will look everywhere for that one deal that can save you a few $100k, no matter where the vehicle is located. If the location provides me an advantage...even better.

Im not trying to identify market trends. Maybe my initial reply in this thread was misleading. I should have said something like "i would only spend $1 million on a TDF when pigs fly".

But since we are talking about market trends/prices...MalibiGuy was exactly on point. Those prices you see on the internet are "asking prices". A lot of negotiation takes place when an interested buyer finally does show interest in the vehicle listed for sale. In most cases, you will never know how much the vehicle was sold for.

Finally, the F12M (or whatever they call it) will have all the tech of the TDF and some. It will also sell at a much more reasonable price as a brand new car. You will also get to choose your color and options. Unless you are a collector and specifically in the market for a TDF, the F12M is a no brainer.

 

To your first point, I'll place a small bet in the not too distant future I will be able to sell my car via IG (and using my lawyer as go between). That might shake up the market no end; I will no longer require specialist dealers to make a silly market, nor taking a large chunk from me regardless of the final price.

To your second point, residuals makes it a complex comparison. The F12M may indeed be very similar to the tdf but a tdf it will never be. Not sure one needs to be a collector to seriously want the benefit of tdf granite-like residuals (ignoring current inflated markets).

 

Sorry. I disagree on your last two points. Yes the ask is different than the actual selling price but the delta is not that huge in this market. All of these special editions Ferraris i listed are selling for more than MSRP (EURO or US).

The F12M being a no brainer will be of no impact on the value of the TDF. It might be faster etc but what matters is that the TDF was limited and a special edition car that was only available to some buyers. Unless we see a big correction across all cars (and markets) these LE cars will continue to trade for much more than MSRPs.
The 599 GTO is cant be had for less than $600k or even $650k in the US and it's a 6 years old car now with a mid $400k msrp. A regular F12 is much faster but that doesnt matter to buyers.

Hopefully things calm down soon!

 

I agree with both your points above. IMO, its a "no brainer" because i personally feel that the updated F12 is what "I" would be more interested in. I already went the "special edition" route in the past with the 430 Scuderia. When the 458 was released shortly after, it was light years ahead in tech and style. After 4 years of Scuderia ownership, i sold it (at almost a 50% loss) and ordered a new F12.

The only point I'm trying to make about buying a used TDF, is that if i were interested in buying one, i would search far and wide until i found a vehicle/deal that allowed me to maximise my dollars spent on the purchase. I would never pay $1M for a car that is basically a raw F12.

If you wanna know the truth...i think the standard F12 looks way better than the TDF. They completely ruined the rear end with the redesign. But thats a matter of taste, and a lot of you may disagree with me.

I guess in summary, no matter what car you are looking to buy, patience and research will eventually lead you to a purchase that could defy existing market trends in your favour. It may be someone desperate for cash, or countless other reasons. My move would be to set an upper limit of what I'm willing to spend. If i find it, its meant to be. If not, Ferrari will release a raw version of the F12M eventually...

The cycle will always continue

 

I know of a LaF which sold for $4.9 Million a few weeks ago.