Can the F430 Scuderia reasonably achieve a shipping weight of 2,975 lb, based on the definition in the post above? Starting from the curb weight of 3,147 lb last measured for this example: Return to stock condition: +6 lb Re-install OEM battery: -3 lb Remove all fuel: -152.5 lb Remove all windshield washer fluid: -14.3 lb Radio Delete: -12.2 lb Add minimum fuel load (2 liters): +3 lb Add minimum w/w fluid (500 ml): +1 lb =================================== Shipping Weight: 2,975 lb So, yes, a 2009 F430 Scuderia in US-spec trim (with the US carbon package and the known crash attenuation components) could meet the advertised weight as shipped from the factory with no 'added cost' options. Note that Ferrari can exploit the 'no cost' status of the radio delete option to its advantage. While the US carbon package was a cost option in other markets, this is probably offset by the lack of US DoT-mandated crash attenuation structures not required in those markets, making the same 2,975 lb shipping weight equally achievable elsewhere. Over the course of this project, the F-Chat Community has discovered extra structures within the front and rear bumpers, and attached to the rear of the transmission housing on US-spec Scuds. There may be added structures within the doors as well.
So, if we took all the knowledge we've accumulated over the past 5 years in this thread, and built a Scuderia specifically for low weight, without giving up any of its drive-ability characteristics, where would we end up? Starting from the Shipping Weight definition of 2,975 lb for a stock 2009 US-spec Scuderia with a modest fuel load and the radio delete option, we'll make the following theoretical modifications: CF Rockers -8 lb CF Decklid -7 lb CF Under-Body Panel -6 lb Titanium Brake Rotor Hats -2 lb total Titanium F&R camber bolts and ARB drop links -0.6 lb total BBS FI Front Wheel -6.2 lb each BBS FI Rear Wheel -5.5 lb each Child seat restraint delete -0.8 lb Remove air compressor -5.1 lb Remove tool kit -2.6 lb Remove rear impact attenuator -1.8 lb Braille Intensity i34CE battery -29.3 lb Aluminum rear decklid vent -0.8 lb each CF front bumper -20 lb (theoretical) CF rear bumper -14 lb (theoretical) =============================================== Total -122 lb Removing 122 lb puts us at the Hypothetical Shipping Weight = 2,853 lb
I believe the factory rear wheel was about 28 lbs and the BBS FI wheels were 21lbs. HRE wheels are 18 & 19 lbs in similar sizes. And of course we need to factor in more weight if we plan on running wider tire sizes. There's definitely quite a bit of weight reduction to be had in the exhaust system. Capristo claimed a weight savings of 48 lbs (headers, 200 cell cat, muffler). Iconel, titanium, 321 SS, or any aero space grade construction would see more savings. Perhaps 60-80 lbs. Also, not sure if the front bumper mesh and the rear carbon grille mesh are aluminum or steel, but if they are steel, some weight savings can be had with aluminum versions. A 2700 lb + Scud in street form would be killer. Especially compared to a 3300 lb Speciale . I've always favored weight reduction over engine power.
Don't forget the heat blankets. Those bits are pretty heavy, but I feel absolutely necessary, especially if you are keen to keep your engine carbon panels nice and shiny ontop of keeping ambient engine bay temps dramatically lower.
I did a bunch of searching about a year ago and the BBS F1-R was about the lightest wheel for any given size. The HREs weren't particularly close at the time (1-2 lb heavier). Obviously it is an ever changing landscape but I am surprised to see that you found HREs to be lighter. I agree, weight wins every time. It doesn't take a lot of HP to make a 1400 lb car very fast.
RBM, I blew my load on a set of 16M skirts. Sorry for not pulling the trigger on that carbon undertray of yours like we talked about...maybe christmas. Had to also pay "additional taxes" for something else, so the mod money well has officially run dry. But you were right, these things are superduperultralight!!! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
While I was at the Porsche Dealership in Boise, ID, giving a presentation to the local chapter of the Porsche Club of America on the use of advanced materials in Porsches, the Service Manager brought out a specialized Porsche tool used to measure the health of carbon ceramic rotors with high precision and repeatability. Porsche has developed a system that uses individual baseline rotor health data recorded on the rotor hat of every Gen III PCCB rotor. However, I was able to do some additional research using a similar tool at the Porsche Dealership here in Austin, and the tool works on every known type of carbon ceramic rotor. Using this tool, it's possible to track ceramic rotor health of any rotor, particularly if you are able to record the baseline data when the rotor is brand new. Here are some facts that I was able to collect from the various literature sources: Carbon ceramic brakes could only be inspected visually or dismounted, cleaned, and weighed, which are both time-consuming and potentially inaccurate. Rotor only loses 1.25% (~100 g) of its weight during its lifecycle. Oxidation of carbon fibers under high temp conditions causes the weight loss. File photos attached. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
More tech data: Proceq Carboteq carbon ceramic rotor health instrument made in Switzerland (Carboteq - High precision wear indication of carbon ceramic brake discs). Carboteq developed in 2013. Carboteq is certified by TUV, NRTL, GS, UL, and CE. Proceq Carboteq measuring device uses pulse-induction technology found in metal detectors. Pulse-induction technology is 40 times more accurate than measuring weight loss. Inductive coils produce an electromagnetic field to detect the health of carbon fibers in the carbon ceramic matrix. The lower the display value on the instrument, the more the carbon fibers in the rotor matrix have been damaged. Proceq and Porsche have jointly developed a measuring method specifically for Gen III PCCB rotors. Porsche Tool VAS 6813. Porsche procedures for use of VAS 6813 documented in Workshop Manual 465102. Photos from my test session at Porsche of Central Austin. The tool comes with a calibration plate, and step 1 in the procedure is to calibrate the tool before every use. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Tech data: Each Porsche Gen III rotor is labeled with three (3) baseline and wear limit measurements. The first value is the baseline value of the rotor when new. When the lower wear value is reached, the rotor is no longer serviceable. Rotors may now be replaced individually. Porsches Gen III PCCB rotors have stress-relief micro-structures on their friction surfaces, which appear as stress cracks, but are normal and permissible. Up to 3 chips, scratches, flaking, and fractures per rotor of up to 1 cm^2 area, up to 10mm length, and up to 2mm depth each is permissible. In the Gen III PCCB rotor photos below, there are three numbers printed on the rotor hat (specific to that individual ceramic rotor). The top number is the position number (1, 2, or 3, equally spaced every 120 degrees around the rotor). The first bottom number is the baseline value of the rotor when new. The second bottom number is the wear limit value when the rotor becomes unserviceable. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The Carboteq can be used to track rotor health periodically. The current health (on the display) provides an indication of life remaining between the new rotor value and the 'dead rotor' value. The red laser light is used to align the tool on the rotor to the index marking between the values, to ensure repeatable measurements. The tool is extremely sensitive, and the readings changed significantly with small movements of the tool around the rotor. The Porsche workshop manual permits 'through the spokes' readings with the wheel mounted on the car, but warns of inaccurate readings. The metal content of the wheel disturbs the field generated by the tool. This rotor is on a new car on the showroom floor, and the reading should be 62.0 as specified on the rotor hat. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
We tested a PCCB Gen II rotor. The readings were approximately the same, indicating roughly the same carbon fiber content. Without baseline data, there's not a definitive way to track rotor life. However, if baseline data is collected when the rotor is new, and rotor position of the tool is accurately tracked, then relative health could be tracked from that point on. Image Unavailable, Please Login
We also tested a PCCB Gen I rotor that is known to be unserviceable. The readings were all in the low 40's and mid-high 30's. These values were below any values that Danny, the shop foreman, had ever seen. They were also below any of the wear limit values we were able to find on any of the PCCB Gen III rotors, which were all in the 40's. This suggests that a reading below 40 is a 'dead rotor' threshold for all types of rotors. Image Unavailable, Please Login
We tested a Brembo (OEM Ferrari) CCM rotor, and produced similar results. The rotor has less than 8,000 miles on it, and is serviceable. Image Unavailable, Please Login
We also tested a Carbon Fiber Reinforced Ceramic (CFRC) rotor 'through the spokes' on Project-Scuderia. Despite the disturbance of the induction field by the wheel, the readings on the tool were all off the scale (>100.0) at every location that we took a reading. Danny was quite surprised, as he had never seen anything like it. The high reading is explainable, given the higher content of carbon fibers, and the use of longer fibers in the woven mats, in the construction of the CFRC rotors. It's known that rotor heat capacity and heat transfer capability of ceramic rotors is directly related to carbon fiber content. It's good to know that the CFRC rotors have at least twice the carbon fiber content of the other rotors. However, it would still be nice to know quantitatively how much more heat capacity the CFRC rotors have over the traditional Porsche and Ferrari rotors. I contacted the CFRC rotor manufacturer and learned that the company is currently working with Proceq to develop a measuring device calibrated specifically to the CFRC rotor. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wow, it's hard to believe that it's been just over four years since my last update to this thread on the Scuderia project. In the intervening four years, battery products have made some advances, and spread to more segments of the industry, while scaling to lower price points that offer a competitive cost-weight value. So, it's time to get the lead out of Project Scuderia. Specifically, the 16.845 kg/37.14 lb of lead and plastic that make up the stock Optima Type 34R AGM lead-acid battery found in Scuderias. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Along with the stock battery, we discussed the stock battery tray awhile back. The battery tray is kinda low-tech, one of the few parts in a Ferrari made of steel (other than fasteners), and definitely complicated, using five different fasteners, requiring five different tools to remove and install. The tray is designed specifically for the Optima family of batteries, so installing another battery (even a true Type 34) requires either a new tray, or permanently disfiguring the stock battery tray. The battery tray, battery cover, and associated brackets and hardware weigh 1.955 kg/4.31 lb. Note the scalloping in stamped steel base of the tray. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here's the stock battery and battery tray side-by-side with the new Li-Ion battery and battery tray. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That looks good. Is it plastic? Will it be available to buy from the outlet who sells the carbon under-panel and rotor hats?
The battery tray and the sliding locks (yellow) are 3-D printed thermoplastic. Here's another shot of the tray. The battery slides into the tray and is held down on three sides, with the yellow tabs locking it in on the fourth side. No tools required to install or remove the battery from the tray. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here's a shot with the cover panels/kick panels in place. The stock panel is a stamped and welded metal structure with an alcantara cover and an aluminum foot rest bolted to it. The new kick panel is an aluminum sheet with a quasi-diamond plate pattern similar, but not exactly like the floor boards. I could attach the alcantara mat and/or the foot rest to the new kick panel, and I probably would have if I had the optional alcantara panels over the wheel wells, because it would tie the center console in nicely with the rest of the interior. But since I'm going with an industrial interior look (more to come on that theme) and saving grams/ounces here and there, I left them off. Image Unavailable, Please Login
