A blast from the past!

Here's what an F1 Ferrari looked like 52 years ago, and John Surtees won a championship with it.

Actually, this is a reproduction commissioned by the Barber Vintage Motorsports Museum in Alabama, which owns the original car but doesn't want to risk running it. Visually, I cannot find anything wrong with the duplicate.

At this weekend's Barber Historics, one of their people took it out on the track for some leisurely laps. Note the proximity of the fuel tanks to the cockpit, and the small size of the 1-1/2-liter cars of that time. If you need to ask about the blue-&-white colors, you need to bone up on your F1 history!
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Great stuff! Did the original have the shift pattern stenciled on the side panel like that?

 

It's a tiny car. At the time, endurance and CanAm cars were faster than F1 too.

F1 was almost a side show for Ferrari who dedicated most of his effort to Le Mans and the sportscar championship.

Could we imagine now, the pinnacle of motor racing being run with engines smaller than Formula Ford ?

 

I almost resent that, Jim. I hope everyone here knows the answer...
Because the car was actually in those colors the day Surtees was crowned World Champion, so he was crowned in a blue and white Ferrari; unusual enough to be remembered.

Rgds

 

And it was in pretty unusual circumstances as well, wasn't it?

A certain Bandini had something to do with it as well.

For me, that spoiled it a little bit ...

 

Well, that has been discussed over and over many times, William...frankly, I have no definitive perspective over that "incident", shall we say?

Rgds

 

Can you imagine the same scenario repeated at the last GP in 2016, for example?

Something like Rosberg leading on point, with only Vettel and Ricciardo still in the chase to take the title at the last GP.

Vettel is in 5th place during the first half of the race, with Kimi battling with Nico for second place. Ricciardo would be leading. Then Kimi punt Rosberg into a spin, sending him at the back of the pack, where he would finish his race limping to the chequered flag. .

Towards the end of the race, Ricciardo's engine gives up, and Kimi slows down, letting Vettel by to take the championship. How do you think that would go down in history?

I think there would be furore about Kimi's move against Rosberg, and the Scuderia's team orders. Don't you think? I think we would be talking about it for years.

How things have changed. I have never heard Graham Hill complaining about the "incident", nor BRM accusing Ferrari of dirty tactics. But clearly, by today's standards, G.Hill was robbed of a championship. Bandini's driving would be questioned by the stewards today. At the time, sportmanship was the norm.

 

William,

Since a certain Grand Prix in Singapore in 2008, EVERYTHING can be imagined.
When the first rumors of the dirty trick began to emerge, I couldn't and wouldn't believe that someone could have attempted something so utterly dangerous and stupid. And then...

Rgds

 

And this is precisely why I don't wish to discuss it again.
I know that some still think that Graham Hill was robbed, and this can be argued; but on the other hand I have not read/heard that Surtess championship was "undeserved", even if it has been "somewhat helped" by Bandini.
These guys were sportsmen, and I'll leave it at that.

Rgds

 

Don't start me off on this one again!

Remains one of the sports very darkest moments IMO. Completely & utterly indefensible.

Ian

 

I personally think he was ...

 

But would you say the same about Bandini's move against G.Hill at the 1964 Mexican GP?

That decided the outcome of the championship, surely more than Singapore did in 2008, IMO.

Do you think it was defensible, or these tactics are OK if played by Ferrari?

 

Clearly, but only seen from this day (I was 4 years old at the end of 1964 - nearly 5) not acceptable, but as these were not protested, I consider that the result is what it is.

Neither was Senna's move on Prost at Suzuka in 1990. Not because I am French and a Prost fan (I don't think I was, not at this time) but because it was displaying the exact opposite of sportsmanship. And robbed us of a longer suspense for the championship.

Rgds

 

I was already following F1 at the time, and Ferrari in particular. As I was also a motorcycle fan, Surtees was my favourite driver at the time (before it was Phil Hill), but I was disgusted by the way he won the championship, when I read about the circumstances later on (there was no GP on TV at the time, so you used to follow GPs in Autosport or Motorsport!). That's not the way I wanted Ferrari to win! Why couldn't they win cleanly in GP like they did in endurance, I thought.

I don't think Surtees was part of the plot, but Tavoni must have schemed the whole thing with Bandini, I think. Observers said that Tavoni was giving pre-arranged orders to the Italian from the pits during the race.

Graham Hill and BRM took it in a typical British way: stiff upper lip and no recrimination. That's why I said there was still sportmanship then. People used to take defeat on the chin without forever complaining about it - impossible these days with media attention.
If anything, Surtees looked embarassed, and this didn't make him more popular among the drivers.

 

Surtees title probably was undeserved but I don´t think that Bandini made it deliberatedly. People got killed easily in motorsport in those days, I think that crashing on purpose was not even considered back then.

 

It wasn't a massive crash with high speed contact. The proof is that both cars survived almost intact, and kept racing too. Bandini just braked later than he should have as he was following Graham Hill approaching a first gear hairpin, touched the BRM and pushed it into a spin. The move wasn't a life-threatening accident at all, and looked suspicious if not quite deliberate to some observers .
Of course Hill lost time, but worse, the shunt bent the car exhaust and reduced power. He resumed racing, but wasn't able to fight back, finishing down in the order.

 

Checked the archives, because I had something in the back of my mind: there actually was some kind of official enquiry, if not reprimand: Bandini received a letter from Peter Garnier and Jo Bonnier, Secretary and President of the GPDA, asking about his views of the incident, to which he answered that, from his point of view, it was a normal race incident.

Rgds

 

Couple of historical points:

the Ferrari was painted blue and white in the USA colors because Ferrari was protesting the Italian Auto clubs decision to not support him in his homologation efforts for the Endurance makes championship. so he "surrendered" his Italian competition license... and raced under Luigi ( North American Racing Team - NART ) colors. two races - US GP and Mexican Gp.

during the Mexican Gp, Bandini collided with Graham Hill in a BRM causing Hill to drop back. and Surtees won the race - and the Championship... slim margin at best.

there was an enquiry, with all participants. it was ruled a racing incident, and the Italians begged Ferrari to come back to the club... so in 65 - they were red again. the Italian AC were then the ones to defend Ferrari at the CSI - Fore runner of the FIA / FISA.... for the championship. Some speculate that Bandini did that because he was going to be replaced by Scarfiotti as Mr. Ferrari needed money to continue on. it was the last World Championship that Mr. Ferrari had on his own. the next one - 10 years later with Lauda - was with Ferrari - Fiat.

 

Gurney won, Surtees 2nd and Bandini 3rd.

Didn't exactly hit him from behind, but did run wider then what one would expect from a car running inside another at the hairpin....

http://youtu.be/_WCZJrrfY3E