He had the most wins of anyone that season, and of the relevant people the most retirements (2), none of which where his fault, both car related, whereas the Mclaren boys each had 1 retirement and both their own fault. Furthermore I don't think you can claim which driver is better just on how their championship was won, or that they just had to beat their teammate in cases when their car was much better than the rest. I don't think Ferrari had the best car in 2007/08, and as for Vettel, he made a pretty convincing case of beating Webber after 2010. Only very occasionally beaten in quali (when he did it was very marginal), most of the time he was around half a second clear in quali and there where times when he was over a second faster! How Raikkonen remained relevant in 2005 is beyond me, it was a rare weekend when his engine didn't fail at some point during the weekend (forcing a 10p grid penalty, and remember, no DRS!), or during the race. He drove like a man possessed.
Bs...did you ever saw Jean in a car as competitive as the ones Kimi and Seb drove? no you did not,but i saw Jean driving some ****boxes in 92 and 93 and figthing Senna in a vastly superior Mclaren or Williams that could run rings about that wretched Ferrari...i also saw him fight Michael several times in inferior cars. To use the argument of who won more races or more championships to prove A is better then B is completly pointless. KImi fully deserved his championship,he was the best driver that season,even if he was not as good as in 2005 and 2006 where he was by far the best driver. Damon Hill and David Coulthar were crap compared to Berger and Alesi,but had good enough cars to won many races. Herberet was a calender faster then both of them and yet had a very obscure carreer,only because he signed the wrong contract with Lotus. I chalenge anyone to pick the best half dozen moves by any current driver and put them here,i will do the same with Jean, let's watch what they were able to do and how competitive were their cars in relation to the competiton and then let´s see who is more talented!
+1 Remember his constant whining in 2013? Or still his whining whenever Rosberg is in front and *****ing he wants a different strategy (even though team policy is that they will NOT do that when they're fighting each other)
+1 Alesi was a very talented driver. Berger though was very much like Kimi, ie. on his day he was very fast but otherwise not motivated enough. And sorry Tifosi, but Seb is not as good as his 4 WDC's make him appear to be. Yes he beat Webber ... big deal. The car was head and shoulders better than any other on the grid so he had it easy. Just like LH (Elton) ... in fact I'll give the nod to LH here because he did try to drag slow McLarens up the grid when for once he did not have the perfect car. Seb does not have the ability to wring the neck of a race car and lift it's performance. Sure he can get to 99% but not 105% like Senna, MS, etc. could. Pete
I'm sorry but I disagree. The Merc is so much better than the RB ever was. Mercedes has not had ANY competition since 2014. 2010 Red Bull had Mclaren and Ferrari, 2011 it dominated, 2012 it had fierce competition from Ferrari and late in the season Mclaren was the best car, and in 2013, only the 2nd half of the season Seb dominated. Whether he is as good as MS/Senna etc I don't know but certainly above elton.
I think Seb is very good, for me better then Elton,but i think the 05/06 Kimi was better then any current f.1 driver.
Yep agreed. It's a shame he wasn't on that same level in 2007-2008 as well, even though he won 2007 he should've won more races of course. Remember his contract offer for I think 2011 to join Red Bull. How different history could've been had he just taken that instead of mucking about in WRC .
"Bs...did you ever saw Jean in a car as competitive as the ones Kimi and Seb drove? no you did not,but i saw Jean driving some ****boxes in 92 and 93 and figthing Senna in a vastly superior Mclaren or Williams that could run rings about that wretched Ferrari...i also saw him fight Michael several times in inferior cars. To use the argument of who won more races or more championships to prove A is better then B is completly pointless." I couldn't disagree more with the last sentence. Greatness ultimately rises to the top ... brilliant talent begets great race seats, it beckons the best designers, and it inspires the entire team to reach new heights. Think about how Nikki lifted Ferrari from the doldrums,, Michael brought Benneton from largely mediocre results to 2 straight titles, Michael (and the team he helped build) made Ferrari greater than it had ever been before or since, Stewart took a new constructor (Tyrrell) from 1st year as a builder to 2 championships in a 3 year span, etc. I stand by my statement about championships and race wins. Berger was clearly 1st tier when he was "on" (although Senna brained him when they were on the same team), and Alesi had some exciting races. But I will say it again: to suggest those two were better than Sebastian and Kimi is laughable and cannot be supported by any objective measurement.
Kimi won his championship because he was near the front often enough until the end and managed to limit his mistakes to have the most points. It wasn't a glamorous or heroic win by any stretch, but he earned it. In order to even be selected by Ferrari, Kimi had a record of showing tremendous natural speed over many seasons, which was no accident... You could say Michael had the best car by FAR during his reign (he did for most of it), but it was the best in no small part because he helped develop it through tireless practice. Again, no accident.....
If Nico wanted to assure the destruction of his own career and confidence, it would be brilliant for him to leave his comfort zone to go to Ferrari and leave Elton in the superior Mercedes. The F1 honchos need to allow higher testing limits like before to allow the hardest working teams to improve and then we can see who is best. Michael's work ethic was a huge part of his string of WDCs.
I never said Kimi & Seb were better only because they scored more points. In fact, I think there are numerous reasons why they were better. The most easily quantifiable, and the one which cannot be objectively refuted, is race wins and championships. I have an idea, although it will take moderators to set it up: I will start a new F1 thread asking who thinks Alesi and Berger were a better Ferrari driving pair than Seb and Kimi. Let the F'Chatters decide the old fashion way; by voting.
hahahha Been working so missed this gem You make me laugh furoni BTW I was anti-Schuey for a while, wife and son loved him , they didn't know any better, but I warmed to him in the end due to his attitude, not him winning for SF
Glock can rot in hell, he cheated US out of a championship !!! Don't worry it was Felipe that got shafted, he didn't deserve it , WE DID!!!
Aww, Felipe did deserve it, he was a genuine contender at the time, maybe a little too nice (bit like Nico 14/15, too fair when he needed to be more forthright and strong), but he drove well, and the team made a few mistakes along the way that would have made Brazil his homecoming as champion before the day came had they not. Since then, of course, I think his accident dented his driving and the move to Williams was a season or so too late as it rekindled his racing spirit
