Then they're all in Rockwall Texas. Seriously, it's like they got together and formed a joint suicide pact. I've never seen anything like it before.
Are cyclist required to ride the speed limit on a public roadway? I had a section of Plano Parkway that I drove home everyday ( after sitting on the tollway for 45 minutes ) that on occasion I would catch myself behind a large group of riders ( 30+ ) that would spread out taking up an 1/8th of a mile of roadway 2 and 3 wide. ( This section was 2 lanes undivided roadway ) They were spread out in a fashion that would not permit a safe pass. Don't get me wrong, get a group together and go on a ride, Saturday or Sunday morning, off-peak hours, etc... but not in rush hour , with 10+ cars backed up behind you riding 20mph in a 45mph zone. I just contacted The Colony police department and let them handle it. Who would wait for them at the end of the two lane section and politely remind them not to block traffic. Eventually, I found a longer way home, just to avoid the conflict. For the record, in Texas: § 545.363. MINIMUM SPEED REGULATIONS. An operator may not drive so slowly as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law. Any jurisdiction with speed limit setting authority may establish a minimum speed limit if an engineering study recommends it. However, it is permissible to disregard the speed limit for safe operation or in compliance with law.
I have no problem with cyclists... good friends that ride daily. I respect someone out for a ride when I'm riding my fat rear end in a car with the engine doing all the work..
In my area cyclist want motorist to share the road but they have no intent on doing the same. They run stop signs and red lights all the time. Groups of 10 or more will run right through a 4 way stop so they can all stay together. They slow down just enough for everyone to see them coming and they do not stop. When you do get around them safely and heaven forbid you catch a light or stop sign they split the lanes or pass on the shoulder to run up to the front of all the cars only to cut off motorist running through the intersection only to create a situation where you must pass again. It's as if they only want cars to obey the traffic laws that protect them and have zero respect for anyone not on a bike. The don't want us to share the road they want us to give them the road. Once again this is in my area. I'm sure there are a few out there that obey the traffic laws but I haven't seen them.
I think the "except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation" might be the technical exception for cyclists and tractors etc. Any time I was at or above the speed limit it wasn't as safe. At 45 mph down a hill I had very little ability to maneuver or brake, it was equivalent to driving a 328 at 130 mph, everything is very light and white knuckles! I think a key point is that 99% of the complaints I hear against cyclists are things the cyclists aren't doing illegal. They may take you longer to pass, but they have a legal right to be there. There is a fine line about impeding traffic on a two lane road because often where it isn't safe to pass 3 wide cyclists it isn't safe to pass 1 cyclist. With one cyclist if you aren't going a little into oncoming lane you aren't giving the cyclist enough room. So technically 3-wide vs. 1-wide doesn't make a difference, 3-wide actually forces the motorist to be more patient for a safe pass.
I know technically cyclists are breaking laws with your examples, but I'm not sure cars should be throwing stones for number of "minor violations". Just to give you cyclists perspective... 4 way stops - cars don't move in a single pack, cyclists sometimes do. you can do a traffic study, I guarantee it is more efficient for everyone at the stop to have the pack move through as a group instead one at a time. cyclists should wait their turn though, not just speed through it without a stop. It is also less efficient to do a foot down stop because of clipping in and going again, this is why cyclists to a track stand or slow rolling stop instead of foot down. passing on right at stops - I use to wait my turn if no shoulder back in line. I was pretty good at getting clipped back in and accelerating to maintain my position. I saw cars with others try to jump ahead of cyclists doing this. If there is plenty of shoulder I have no issue with cyclists taking it up to front and staying on shoulder after stop until cars get by. I think this is safer and more efficient for all. Cyclists don't want to be above the law and other motorists, they just want to be equal. That's the major rift as evidenced by posts right here, motorists don't want to treat cyclists with equal rights.
Case in point? http://thechive.com/2016/06/06/******bag-cyclist-gets-instant-karma-after-running-red-light-video/ CW
CA Code weighs in... 21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations: (1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. (2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway. (3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane. (4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. (b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable. 21208. (a) Whenever a bicycle lane has been established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207, any person operating a bicycle upon the roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride within the bicycle lane, except that the person may move out of the lane under any of the following situations: (1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle, vehicle, or pedestrian within the lane or about to enter the lane if the overtaking and passing cannot be done safely within the lane. (2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway. (3) When reasonably necessary to leave the bicycle lane to avoid debris or other hazardous conditions. (4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. (b) No person operating a bicycle shall leave a bicycle lane until the movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 22100) in the event that any vehicle may be affected by the movement. I used to ride a lot on the roads, not so much anymore for a number of reasons but mostly because the ass hat cyclists who refuse to acknowledge the laws of the road and physics. If I'm riding down the road and come to an intersection where vehicles can make a right turn, guess what? I move to the left between the right turn lane and straight ahead lane or if it's a single lane to the center so as to let vehicle make a right turn without holding up traffic. Sure it's a pain, and navigating traffic is tricky but the last thing I want to do is anger a driver in a 3k+lb missile! I have to obey all the same rules of the road, signaling, lane control, speed etc.. and most importantly keep in mind that I'm still a pedestrian trying to share the road with vehicles! Most cyclist seem very ignorant of the codes and laws, blocking right turns, rolling thru stops, wandering into lanes holding up traffic, etc.. all which are illegal. The other reason I'm not fond of riding on the roads is air quality, no fun and sucks to be breathing car exhaust on a ride. Rather hit the trails where I don't have to navigate with vehicles and can breath clean air and not hear traffic.
There is a difference between hate and frustration. TBC - I in no shape or form hate bikers. Back to your point, while on the roadway they must follow motor vehicle laws.. which would include speed limits.. to which there are minumum speed limits in place for motor vehicles as well. So , to be clear, you are 100% OK with bikers blocking a 2 lane ( 1 lane each way ) roadway, riding at half the posted speed limit. Preventing motorist from driving the legal speed limit. If so, for how long? 60 Seconds? 5 minutes? 1 Hour? Longer?
To your point, I went back and dug deeper and found this: Generally, bikes are entitled to all rights and obligated to all duties of the road that apply to a motor vehicle. Tex. Transp. Code § 551.101, see also Tex. Transp. Code, Title 7, Subtitle C. Rules of the Road, Chapters 541 - 600. Unless a specific statutory right or duty is altered by Tex. Transp. Code Chapter 551, or a right or duty applicable to a driver cannot by its nature apply to a person operating a bicycle, the same laws that apply to an operator of motor vehicle apply to a person operating a bicycle. A person operating a bicycle, if moving slower than traffic, shall ride as near as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway. Tex. Transp. Code § 551.103. By definition, roadway does not include the shoulder of the roadway. Tex. Transp. Code § 541.302. It's that last part that seems to be the sticking point. I am 100% fine with sharing the roadway. But a biker must go the speed limit if they are going to take up the entire lane. As has been my experience on multiple occasions. Come to think of it, I have had good experiences with bikers in the Hill Country ( 3 sisters ) we got along all weekend.. so it can be done. It's when I am being blocked from my progress for an extended amount of time that causes my frusteration. ( Not Hatred ) S
You could not be more wrong. I rode for years, generally with one or two other guys that I enjoyed riding with. We'd go out early on Sunday, ride carefully, and do our level best not to get killed by doing something stupid. Always wore a helmet, although there's some conflicting evidence now that wearing a helmet really does much good. However, better safe than sorry. On of the guys I rode with is a very vocal bike advocate in Virginia, has been for a Very long time. You also have a couple of misconceptions. Bicyclists are not entitled to a full lane, they are entitled to the right side of the road, as close as they can safely travel to the curb. And of course there are more issues with drivers than bicyclists. there are a **** ton more miles being covered by inattentive drivers than cyclists. That doesn't mean the jerk riders (NOTE, not all riders are jerks) should be minimized. Do you assume, when driving, that going slowly down the road, talking to the folks in the car next to you is ok, while DRIVING? No? Well, bike riders do. And many of those same riders have no ability, beyond auditory skills, to know when someone is approaching from behind. Bikes are vulnerable, open wheeled, lightweight and unprotected. It's just as incumbent upon the bike rider to ride carefully as it is for the driver of a car. Recklessness on the part of either party will result in a hell of a lot more damage to the bike rider than the driver of a car. Means, just like with a motorcycle, you need to be extra attentive. I now ride, casually, down here in Florida.
I think fair to ticket cyclists for this and I'm sure many do. Not just 3 abreast, but when there is crosswind and pace line starts inching out into lane even when "single file". I don't think any cyclist has ever been ticketed for going too slow, I know cyclists have bragged about getting speeding tickets. Cops usually just ticket cyclists for not coming to complete stop. Easier for the cops to enforce that. That said I told story about riding at TMS lately where there were signs cyclists must stop at all 4-way stops. A few times TMS vehicles were watching. I did 20 mile ride and came upon 40 cars at 4-way stops, only a couple came to complete stops.
This violating the law argument is such bull. I can go to any intersection and ticket almost every car for a rolling stop. I can ticket almost every car for distracted driving. I can ticket almost every car for speeding. The cyclist doesn't want to share the road... or do they want to just to ride and be safe? I think its the exact opposite I would say the cars don't want to share the road. The cyclist is entitled to a full lane, they can travel the speed the choose. So do they get pissed when people honk, throw stuff are treat them like trash. It's so much easier to hate them when we complain about them violating the law... bull.
As you stated, I would be "frustrated". But I have never seen cyclist blocking traffic in both directions.
that's what it really comes down to. if it is so wrong or you are against it, then petition for your laws to be changed. in the meantime share the road and play well with others. not a fair or smart fight 5,000 vs. 16 lbs, but the cyclists are more in the right until the laws change. should the laws be changed, as a former cyclist who has been hit by a car when I was 100% legal, I do have to say yes. I think cyclists should be more restricted on more roads. I also think communities should have more serious bike trails (5+ miles where you can maintain 20+ mph in packs). world is getting too fat, dumb, and lazy.
My next door neighbor is a big bicyclist. His double car garage is jammed with bikes. He parks his cars and trucks outside. He even has some patents on bike stuff he invented. He told me his 14 year old son was going 70 mph on SH 82. A four lane highway and he was going downhill. Speed limit is 55 mph. The cops pulled him over for speeding but said they couldn't do anything caus the kid didn't have a drivers license! Lucky the kid wasn't killed. The dad thought it was real funny. Our mayor at the time was biking down lndependence Pass a couple of years ago. Bikers typically go 50 mph there...speed limit is 35 mph. He lost controll of his bike. Had major head injuries and was in critical condition and critical care for weeks. Lucky he wasn't killed. A friend was diving his truck down Squaw Pass near Mt Evans and ldaho Springs. He was doing the speed limit. A guy on a bike hit him from behind. My friend stopped and tried to help the guy and got chewed out for being in the bikers way. The bike's front wheel was bent and the bike was not usable. My friend put the bike in the truck bed and drove the biker to Evergreen. The biker threatened to sue him...but never did. The guy is lucky he wasn't killed.
Almost every cyclist drives a car. Yet knowing this above cyclists still put on their stupid helmets and ride on busy public streets. They will ride and Darwin will take its course. I'm a cyclist and I even used to build my own bike frames when renyolds 531 and 531SL where the materials of choice! There are so many other ways to get safe exercise. I save my time on the bike for quality rides in quality locations with minimal car traffic. Just because it is legal to do something doesn't mean everyone shouldn't use good judgment. To all those cyclist out there just remember mass wins. Maybe the reason cyclists don't learn is because they usually die when they meet a car. I do not know. Something just inexplicable happens when the bike helmet gets strapped on.
I agree. At no time do I attempt to prove my right away. I ride on trails and bike lanes as much as possible. I assume the car is not paying attention and I always do what is safest for me no matter what the law says. I fully understand it's dangerous. But why do motorist love to hate bikers? It might be crazy, stupid, foolish, but still does not desire to be hated. MN is extremely bike friendly. My guess is I don't see the same level of foolish actions you see. I hope we see more bikers. Motorist and bikers can share the road better, bikes make way for cars when they can, and cars make way for bikers when they can. I will bike home tonight. And most likely go for a ride in my Ferrari, hopefully no bikers in my way.
What started out as a very ugly and depressing thread eventually brought out some good points from both sides. I have always loved cars (especially Ferraris) but also have been riding bikes for decades - I don't, however, ride my bike everywhere that it is legal to do so. Some busy roads are just too dangerous for cyclists. There's always an alternate route. There are **shats on bicycles and there are **shats in cars, including Ferraris. Don't know what you can do about that. Just my 2c.
I made a mistake last night. I've been working out of a Hospital in Gallatin TN and have not been able to get my regular rides in because I didn't know the area very well. Yesterday I said screw it. Asked a few people about road conditions and took off from the hospital. I managed to pick out a great route. Several wildlife, a beautiful lake and nice rolling hills. My mistake was turning onto hwy 109 to head back to the hospital instead of turning around and going back the way I came. 109 is a major highway that is two lanes. With tractor trailers and vey little shoulder. I was only on this road for a couple miles, but as soon as I turned on it I immediately regretted it. I didn't die. Everyone was very polite, but I also stayed as far over as I possibly could. But I will not ride on that road again if at all possible. A little give and take needs to happen on both sides of the line.
I think most cyclists are good about keeping to the right. The ones who are not probably have no idea how many drivers are impaired through alcohol, drugs, age, speed, poor eyesight, cell phone usage, other distractions and just plain can't drive for crap. I stopped riding my bike on public streets years ago, it's just too damn scary. I don't even ride my motorcycle as much any more.
I don't know how accurate or if done by a cyclist, but there was a study it was safer to ride foot to foot and half left of the right line instead of right on it. Theory was more visible and it also kept users from just buzzing past. I haven't heard anyone mention it this thread, but reason cyclists often don't ride on shoulder is the condition of shoulder. Ever seen a racing track right off the racing line? Well those shoulders often have so much debris and not cleaned off. One of my favorites places to ride was open highways with a really wide shoulder that was clean and smooth enough to ride.
I use to ride motorcycles so I'll give you a cyclist perspective. To say running through red lights and stop signs are " minor violations" is wrong beyond measure. It's you justifying your actions nothing more. Just because " cyclist move in packs" doesn't give them the right to do so through stop signs. It's only more efficient for the cyclist not everyone else. It's also only less efficient for cyclist to not do a foot down stop not for motorist. " clipping in" is your issue not mine. They don't even slow down around here. So the " slow roll" doesn't apply. There is no way it's efficient for a cyclist to run up to the front of a stop sign to get in front of all the cars that finally got a safe opportunity to pass only to slow them down again. Of course you don't have an issue with them doing this your guilty of it too. I doubt you think it's safer you probably see it as easier for you and don't take others into consideration. In this area they don't want to be equal they want to justify their actions and it sounds like you are doing the same. I have no problem with equal rights and if you don't either you'll stop doing things because of what you " technically think and feel" and just obey the simple traffic laws, especially in high traffic areas. Hey if no one is around go for it have fun and live on the edge you'll only hurt yourself. When I rode I understood that whats legal, safe and right wasn't always the same thing but at the end of the day a car would beat my bike in a fight any day.
