Predicted FF bottom for early used ones?

True, and really not the best looking wheels either. You buy the drive train development and the styling for the MSRP. The rest is an upgrade !

As far as the LED wheel, it's again a matter of the market prices. No reason to make this stuff up. Most people want a car that matches the build sheet, and the non LED wheel cars are often under optioned in general, to be fair.

 

That is true and taken as a whole a highly optioned car, which includes a LED wheel, can easily be 10-12K more in resale but to say that the LED wheel alone brings 10-12k is misleading imho.

 

+1

 

+2

Brian your spreadsheet was of asking prices? If so well it is pretty much useless... Sellers might ask higher because it has LED or so but they won't get it...

 

brian/ffantastic can you bestow your wisdom on diamond finished wheels? was the dealer link I posted in fact accurate?

 

I see the spec sheet, but those are not diamond finish wheels in the pictures.

Those are the "standard" cast allow wheels, painted silver.

The diamond finish on "standard" wheels look like they have the undercut section colored (to me, look like flying Nike swooshes).

Diamond finish is most noticeable and distinct on the (option) forged alloys.

FWIW, LED's on a FF to me are optional, and nowhere near as "required" as on a 458. We've had them on our 458 and F12, came with the Speciale, we consciously did not order on the FF.

Homelink for us is great, YMMV. The option is included in the electrochromic mirrors (internal/external). As a package, really expensive (overpriced). Personally I hate the clickers....don't like multiple boxes.

I am unsure (and, nobody knows) wha the penetration rate of LED's and carbon steering wheels is on FF's; as pure anecdotal, my local dealer (which moves a lot of FF's relatively speaking) the LED's are rare, as is carbon pieces. More likely to get a leather boot lining

 

Again, if you take the hours to spreadsheet and follow the market as I did a year ago and updated last fall, and as someone I helped here did a couple months ago, the LED wheels are very likely going to seem common, and priced higher, with the better optioned cars. They definitely are a wanted option, as the non LEDs simply don't move given the choice with a LED wheel. For those of us with 1 Ferrari, the used buyer new to the brand, it's more necessary. No one really needs them for the track either, you use your ears. They are fun however!

 

I will quadruple check but the dealer insists those are the wheels that came with the car off of that spec sheet

 

absolutely not debating what they told you....

here is a pic of the "standard" cast wheels with Diamond Finish. It's pretty noticeable. Also you can look in the FF aftermarket catalog, or as pointed out above, on the online configurator
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

maybe the factory messed it up? ive seen numerous adds with the same nomenclature over the years and never questioned it

 

dealer insists they're diamond. maybe it's the light
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

1) yes, IF the car has LED's, yes, I agree, it's likely to be loaded with more options, and YES, that car will have had a higher MSRP, and, ergo, yes, it will likely have a higher asking price

2) I am unaware of any data that accurately shows actual SALES price other than published auction sales. And candidly, I know dealers ask levels are variable, and the actual out the door prices are sometimes manipulated based on multiple factors (eg. time in inventory, trade values, etc etc).

3) many of the FF's that have been in the market, especially 2012 and a few of 2013's, were dealer demo cars with artificially high option levels. Also, does your spreadsheet account for the $15K delta in the options/standard pricing adjustment for MY2013? It's a small population but it's a 5% swing.

4) interesting your comment on LED's for track, that's the one place you'd want them.

5) I view your comment about LED's being a prime influencer as your opinion, which is fine (unless you have actual consumer choice data). My view, based only on anecdotal data, is the LED's are a much higher sensitivity on 458's.

 

yep that's the only reason theyd make sense to me. like ive said, I usually have a kid with me when I take the FF so I literally don't remember the last time I saw the LEDs light up.

 

I don't know. I DO know those are the exact wheels we had on our 2013 FF....standard. silver. not diamond.

I'd imagine the dealer cross-checked the invoice against the car when it was PDI'd. Hmm. Did someone (1st owner?) "swap" wheels and nobody noticed on trade? Sounds far fetched but it's possible I guess. Odd for sure.

I think I've maybe seen one car with the standard wheels in diamond like the other pic. These are diamond alloys, it's a pretty distinctive finish. Actually just saw an eBay ad for the standard silver wheels, but they called them "diamond cut"
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

and one more piece of info
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

After you've done a spreadsheet and watched prices over time, or bought a used car, or consulted a used buyer as they negotiate with dealers, you will have a better idea.

Ask Richard, who I helped with 100+emails get into a 2012 triple paint 405k car for under 190, with 4k miles. He saw the LED wheels at the low end. He saw the well optioned cars moving at 10+ higher.

NO ONE needs the LEDs for the track, you use your ears.

 

uve clearly never been on a track...not known to be the quietest places

and do your ears not work around town?

 

Brian, I've become a convert - I'm now convinced....

Would be happy to compare my new and used Ferrari buying experiences, my proximity to the actual market and the players in it, and all that - but I also know I'm less credentialed than a few of the other folks on this board.

I've also helped put about 10 friends into Ferraris, including 4 FF's, in the past few years. I love spreading the passion.

Spreadsheets for tracking are great...however, they are only as good as the data and even then, are not the only indicator.

As for the 2012 car with a 405 MSRP, would be curious, sounds like one of the early over-spec'd FNA or dealer demo cars. One of the realities come 2013 was 1) the market was not willing to pay (used) for the extra bling options 2) the pricing/options adjustment in 2013 skewed depreciation factors 15%+ and 3) put your price on having one less year of warranty...$6K? 4) etc etc.

I'll step out now. FWIW, do you subscribe to FML?

 

and btw you just traded with yourself, congrats.
a few months ago you said I was wrong for stating Ferrari priced the early FFs incorrectly. you just agreed with the point I made back then.

 

Even with earplugs and a helmet the sound of a Ferrari engine is plenty loud to hear the revs crest. Anyone with even a few years shifting a manual learns the sound in short order of any engine. Unless you're truly old and deaf?

Pricing was fine, stop looking for digs. So pathetic.

Yes some of the cars were pushed on the market with the massive builds around 400, and those are a particularly good deal right now, but still priced higher now than the lower spec cars by 10k or so.

 

Brian, I'm unsure how much track time you have with performance cars, or modern race cars, but I think you might be making more assumptions without having a real understanding of the underlying facts and realities.

I'd be happy to explain, at least my point of view and experience, but unsure you or I are interested in doing that.

 

I'm convinced he literally just spews with absolutely no basis for anything he believes other than its what he's convinced himself to be reality.

 

and if LED is useless on that track then pls tell me when/how it's useful on the street

 

TT why waste time...all of us regular readers know whose opinion we put our weight behind. Not saying that Brian is wrong in expressing his and "some" of it is definitely appreciated but most of the time I definitely lean on the side of guys like you, Entropy, Jaz, Caeruleaus and so on who have owned and traded multiple cars and have seen it all and experienced it first hand.