24 Heures du Mans 2016

I think you are wrong !!

The Mirage M12 (a Tiga, in fact) was declared ineligible to race at 1982 Le Mans 1 hour before the race when one competitor objected to the location of the oil cooler on the car.

The oil cooler on the "Mirage" was at the back, in an unprotected zone behind the rear axle, contrary to the rules. The scrutiners didn't spot that fault, but someone did and reported it at the worst moment, as the car was readied for the race.

Chief mechanic John Horsman was offered to relocate the radiator to bring the car to conformity. He said it was impossible, and Harvey Cluxton withdrew the car, there and then.

Horsman, who built the car, admitted that it was an oversight to have placed the oil cooler in that position.


The exact facts are included in the book "Racing in the Rain", by John Horsman, which I advise you to read.

There was no issue with the mirrors.

 

I see, The Show Must Go ON, so why not bend the rules and give an unfair advantage to Ford, to safe the future, eh?

Complete BS !!!

The ACO was wrong to accept the Ford GT in the first place: it doesn't qualify to race in GTE.

Also, the ACO was wrong to give it a weight advantage in the revised BOP, refusing to accept that the Chip Ganassi team was sandbagging during tests.

 

Without BOP, you would have maybe 1 or 2 types of car competing alone.

BOP allows others cars to compete by leveling their performances, giving more variety to the field.

The FIA has understood that with their GT3 category: Ferrari 488, Chevrolet Corvette, Porsche 911, McLaren 650S, Lamborghini Huracan, Morgan Aero, BMW M6GT, AUDI R8, Aston Martin Vantage, Mercedes AMG GT, etc... all compete in the same championship.

The ACO completely messed up by not aligning the WEC on the FIA rules.

In fact, GT3 are FASTER than Le Mans GTE.

Without BOP at Le Mans, probably a Ferrari 488 is the best car to win.

 

Have you ever considered that the BOP rules are the problem with all racing???? Regardless of class, series, sanctioning body or continent.......the whole thing sucks the big one! It seems in all the effort to make racing "fair" you simply bring in the politics and those who win by legislation than by better engineering or exceptional driving skills. And with it you bring in those that have significant financial resources that can out manuver just about every competitor out there. Welcome to "parity".

 

From what I read on this site and others I have to tell you that there seems to be a fair amount of opinion that Ford sandbagged and that the organizers didn't care. Whether they did or not is irrelevant; the perception is there. Not good.

 

It's NOT irrelevant. Its not irrelevant because the FIA looked at the data and made them reduce their turbo pressure.

If they hadn't sand bagged, the FIA would have had the true data to analyze and put even more restrictions on the Ford to make it conform.

There is no question that they did it. And, they did it to have an unfair advantage during the race. People only remember that you won --- not how you did it.

The real people who got screwed was Team Corvette.

 

The 488 was right there behind or ahead of the lead Ford GT for every second of the race.

Ford corporate designed the GT just to win LeMans. Ferrari made the 488 street car and a small team in Houston converted it.

By the rules there are supposed to be cars on the street for this class. There are plenty of 488's out there on the roads. Where are the Ford Gt's?

Hardly seems fair, does it?

It's a PR stunt and we are the suckers. Unfortunately the LeMans race has damaged by all of this. Racing is not important. "Getting the message out" is now more important.

 

Michelotto is not in Houston. LOL. The car was assembled by Risi crew members at the Michelotto shop in Padova.

 

Padova is nice, but it ain't Maranello. That said, haven't seen any new Ford GTs on the street. Corvettes got screwed by the rules big time.

 

1) still NOT the factory
2) still run out of Houston

 

So an Audi lmp1 is not factory either? Not built by factory owned shops e.g. Dallara chassis
Toyota lmp1 built by French and German companies.
Michelotto is 100% Factory backed. prodrive is AMs.
Check interweb who makes tubs, gearboxes, suspension and all other parts for the major manufacturers (audi, porsche, Toyota, ford etc)

 

The Ford was allowed to race because the racing teams OK'd it, knowing that the cars will be in owners hands this year.

It was put to the teams. If some have a problem with it having been there, take it up with the teams who allowed it. Apparently everyone agreed.

 

I'm going to agree with you.

 

Well, from a business point of view, the Ford PR stunt has not damaged Le Mans, quite the opposite. Now Ford is going to put ads everywhere talking about their win at Le Mans, so people who never bothered about the race will hear about it. A Ferrari or whatever else win would be unnoticed for the general public.

Of course the ACO knows this so they made sure that the Ford was competitive. I´m also pretty sure that GM is not happy about the braggin´ that Ford is going to do and the BOP will be quite different for next year.

 

Right you are.

The mirror issue was reported by the tape delayed TV broadcast and On Track magazine. Not
sure why that may be but perhaps that was the <<unofficial>> reason given.

Heard from the Andretti's PR man, Don Henderson, on this overnight...

"When Harley Cluxton bought the French team and took the three Andretti's to Le Mans.....they were not happy that we did not have a French driver....

"They literally surrounded the car and physically pulled Mario out of the car on the grid....

"They said that we were being disqualified because the Oil Cooler was too far forward....

"Was total BS.....

"Funny story after that.....Mario was so pissed off.....he threw the rental Mercedes in reverse.....and rammed the car parked behind us...then pulled away....

"However it was a Land Rover....
When we pulled away....our rear bumper....remained attached to the Land Rover....

"Michael and I were in stitches .....
And Dee Ann was horrified....

"I had to remain behind and come up with a Story for the rental company....

"I flew home the next day and got to spend an awesome night in Paris.....

"One of my favorite stories....

"The next year.....we had a French Driver...."

BHW

 

Same in 1966 (not the ACO but Organizers Monte Rallye) BBC ON THIS DAY | 21 | 1966: Future of Monte Carlo rally in doubt

Guess who won? Citroën...

Early 2000s Racing for Holland Dome Judd was given penalty at LM when ACO found few drops of FIA fuel in stead of ACO fuel in tank. When did they inspect the tank? After Jan Lammers set a very quick time in a year that Audi invested millions in LM/ACO

who finds me bread and cheese, it's to his tune I dance

 

1. If the 488 was right behind it the entire time, clearly there is no problem at all. Next time Risi should try not to give up the lead or spin out or something. It is what it is. Ferrari lost fair and square.

2. AF Corse cars both broke. That's life. Fords all finished. Endurance racing is just as much about the endurance of the cars and drivers as it is about the performance of the car.

3. LOL. The 488 is most definitely a factory effort and AF Corse cars broke. End of story.

4. If the other teams didn't want the Ford to race, it wouldn't have. I didn't see them complaining when they beat the GTs in other races. It turns out that Ford actually built a very good car.

 

BTW, these are the fastest laps from two previous races. Notice anything about the gaps in performance between Ferrari and Porsche/AM? Considering these tracks are even shorter, the gaps in lap times are even bigger here than what you saw at LM in terms of performance. How come no one is saying Ferraris wins are BS? Should the Ferraris be turned way down too or are AM/Porsche just straight up not competitive and needing new cars?

Spa:

Ferrari fastest lap: 2'18.485
AM fastest lap: 2'19.970
Porsche fastest laps: 2'20.461

Silverstone:

Ferrari fastest lap: 1'58.885
AM fastest lap: 2'00.535
Porsche fastest lap: 2'01.005

 

Point being that your implication that a small team in Houston took a Ferrari street car and converted it on their own to the GTE is fiction. Since Michelotto have handled Ferrari's sports racing cars all the way back to the 333SP it's a bit of a stretch to say that there was no factory involvement in the development of the 488 GTE.

 

Michelotto, based in Padova, designs/develops and builds and maintains the Ferrari GT cars for the "teams". (they help develop the Challenge cars, but those are born in Maranello).

Michelotto is present at all the major WEC, IMSA, et al races providing engineering support, and supply parts.

The "teams" (AF Corse, Risi, Scuderia Corsa, etc etc - there are many) are wise to leverage the Michelotto guys, and do extensively. Some perhaps more than others, as these are true "customer" cars. Ferrari will provide factory-paid drivers (Wilander, Fisi, Rigon, Bird), and Ferrari does have Corse Clienti (now called Competitizione GT) support there.

Teams can make tweaks and setup decisions on their own, and can run their own race strategy, and most do. Much like Porsche with the RSR, there is a lot of "factory' support behind any and all GTE-Pro cars.

Does AF Corse get "better help"? perhaps - but then they also run a fleet of cars, and do more races, than the other teams, and AF has a very long and unbroken history of running these cars.

 

308 GTB/M (rallye)
308 GT/M
288 Evo
F40 LM
F40 GT(E)
575 GTC
333 SP
360 GT(C)
& more

 

correct, I race with AF Corse

 

Interesting column by Andrew Frankel on the limits of BOP racing:

The problems with Balance of Performance | Motor Sport Magazine

 

As Mr. Risi himself told gathered members of the media at an invited event in his paddock
at Sebring in 2013, the GT cars are from the ground up prototypes.

If memory serves and the rules are still the same for governing GT cars from the ALMS
days, the only thing that has to be stock on the cars is the roof from the front tip of the
windscreen to the end of the rear window.

Anything after that is fair game so calling the GTE Pro and Am cars stock is not correct.

Getting into GT3 cars however, then we begin to see many more stock elements.

BHW

 

Peter and Chrisxxx can comment (and should)...

The 430 and 458 GT3/GT2/GTE platforms are hugely different from the street versions of the cars, but have a lot of common DNA.

With the 488 platform, the "distance" between GTE/GT3 spec and the road car has gotten much bigger; in fact, like most GTE cars, you can legitimately argue that they are now ground-up completely different platforms.

The GTE and GT3 spec can now be swapped with some changes to aero and mechanicals (sold as a kit, probably an expensive kit) and with a change of engine.

GT3 engine, which is limited, is primarily production spec by rule. GTE engine has changes to internals. Gearbox is now a transverse Xtrac (to help make sure of diffuser), and just about everything else is different.

Porsche's next gen GTE car is an even further departure from a 991

The 488 Challenge and 991 Cup cars will have more in common with the street cars, but bear in mind those are one-make series, so the only FIA/IMSA rules that apply are for safety. The Huracan ST car is on its own a relatively larger departure from the Huracan street car.