Countach, the ultimate supercar

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Didn't know that.

 

It's worth reposting another 100 times.

 

There was no periscope tunnel in any of the lp400s'. ONLY the lp400 so that point is null and void. Im surprised noone picked up on that. They said the roof was raised on S2 cars (later ones) Nothing to do with the roof tunnel which was not there.

 

According to the Lamborghini Registry, they were three LP400S with the periscope roof: 1121030 +2 others. I don't have the other serial numbers.

On the other hand, there was apparently one LP400 without the periscope roof: 1120098

 

Wasn't it the so-called series 3 cars that had the revised body shape? Also, I thought all early LP400 models were built with the periscope roof? Maybe that car was converted to a LP400S spec and then converted back or something? I recall reading that some LP400S conversions weren't rebuilt to full S specifications so maybe a few cars were more easily covered back to their original Periscopa factory specs?

 

S2 was still low body setting. 105 were made . The "high body " cars started with the S3 .

 

Correct.

 

Indeed.

So far, 1030 is the only production S I remember with the Periscope roof.

My former 1034 had the LP400 rain-gutter vents but no actual Periscope groove.

There were at least 4 LP400 that had the "S" Wolf -type upgrades, Wolf's 0148 & 0202, Silvera's 0222 and the Spazzapan car whose chassis number I forget and cannot access from my present location.

 

Simple: if there is a "periscopio", it's a LP400.
Even #1121030, the only "official" LP400S with that specific roof design, started its life as a LP400.
All the other periscopa S looking Countach ever seen were, in fact, retroffited LP400. Actually this concerned 1/5th of the production!
Also, someday we'll have to discuss the status of the "factory-rebuilt" LP400 into LP400S, keeping their older VIN (but loosing their purity forever)... because this also affected the detail and total of the production.

Another demystification shall be planned as well IMHO: How to cut "series" from the LP400S production.
It has been commonly agreed to name these by the LowBody+Bravo's, LowBody+NoBravo's, Raised-Body... By their visual differences AND their VIN therefore.
However, back then, if you would ask the workers about "S1, S2, S3", they'd answer you "What the heck is a S1 or 2 or else?!"
At that time, there were only the "Countach S" from 1978 to 1981... then the "Rialzato Countach S" from May 1981 (the new raised bodies&chassis designed by Alfieri, that are commonly named S3).

Because even within the "S1", we could (and should) distinguish the very first ones with fully-powerful 375HP engines, those with the "depolluted" 353HP engines, also the first 17 cars with small LP400-type SW gauges...
And same for the "S2" and "S3": How about the spacers behind the front wheels? The ones with small Sebrings mirrors, those with big Turbo flag mirrors? Latest mirrors? And how about those with the first chromed then later black window cranks? And the thicker front blinker cover on the late S3?
All those little(?) visual differences are as much important when it comes to consider the rarity of such a car as if it does wear 'Bravo' wheels or not.

For example: LP400S #1121100 is agreed to be the last "Series 1" Countach S. But what about the "S1"#1121098 that does not ride on Bravo's? #1121102 doesn't have Bravo wheels either but still is considered as a "Series 2" though it used to be in every point similar to #1121098... a "S1".
See?

I'm not here to criticize anything. Nor am I pretending to know everything. I'm only calling for a true debate on the matter... as it is fascinating!
Please, you all who care about details, tell us your thoughts and what you know about it.
I already mentioned several details, do you know some more to (really) consider? Air-Conditioning swtich color?



PS: Joe, Spazzapan's special Countach had the VIN #1120188.

 

Thanks for that.

Agree with you that these details are fascinating, and I dare say that most have been touched upon during the course of this illustrious 9-year-old thread.

 

Victor, this below is 1121010, correct?

Also I have some new exclusive images of 1121030 which I will be able to post sometime soon.
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Yes, this was 1121010 when new, finished 'Nero / Champagne' with gold pinstripe + gold wheels.


I'd love to see your pics of 1121030 !!

Actually, I have a theory about that particular Countach:
it might have been the LP400S muletto, believed to be 1120112 at first (and appeared in CAR magazine, January 1978), before being modified/rebuilt and sold new as 1121030.

_ 1120112, built in 1975... believed to be the development LP400S from late 1975 throughout 1977... and delivered to Leimer in 1978 (as per factory delivery lists).
_ 1121030, periscopa roof, modified LP400 chassis, (re?)built and delivered new to Leimer in December 1978.

It's only a theory, I hardly can prove it.
Actually, we never saw 1120112 again...

Can't wait to see what you've got!
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I am thinking you are right, and if so considering the car's performance when driven by Stanislao, it must have a Motore Potenziato. Anyway, the suspension is being corrected to Lowbody stance.

 

With Lamborghini at that time nothing is impossible, but how to prove it...
#1121030 was even inspected for the registro, at least then they should have found a LP400 engine #, unfortunately there is no build # on the chassis unlike the Bertone built and delivered cars.

One thing which speak against this theory: A new VIN would cause new import taxes, we know from the history that many cars were rebuilt using the old VIN.

 

Victor: interesting points

The S1,S2,S3 were and are not still factory official designations. probably they will never be factory recognized either
the S rialzato can be found on a VIN list, hand written BUT i have seen or heard for the first time when i first got the VIN list...i had NEVER heard a mention of the S rialzato before by owners, dealers or factory workers before.

with this in mind, lamborghini aficionados came to the 3 series as a conclusion to some 10 years of study and research on the cars, pics, papers etc. We can agree many members of this forum gave contributions to this research, with study and images
the 3 series is a "recent" evolution as, for some time, the 1978/79 Bravo wheels cars were called S1 and all later cars S2: easy and simple ...may be so much that it was an oversimplification


the 3 series are not written in stone and may be not the end word to the matter, but on the other hand if we would put mirrors and window handles and many more small details i hope is not in the spirit of splitting the Series again...it would be very hard to do since some changes are not time consistent also.

the series as defined today gave a big importance to bravo wheels, while the S2 and S3 cars are splitted by more significative body differences
we can agree or disagree on the S1 and S2 distinction but for sure the bravos are fascinating for all countach fans and an important feature

as for the 375 hp Vs 353 hp engines: i believe the truth is simply that 353 was a more realistic, but even still a bit optimistic, claim from factory. i have no idea when they started to advertise the 400S as a 353 hp car but i do not think it was in 1979, but later.

i had a very early S1 and a very late S3 and i think the only difference is in the 45 DCOE carbs vs 40 DCOE on later car.
on the road they look to be the same power but you can notice a difference: the 45 carbs make the power delivery less linear and a tad more "brutal": at full throttle the early cars have an esitation and then power comes in a more wild way while the late cars have no esitation at 3500 rpms or so and they go on from idle to red line.
the 45 may have a small advantage for power at hi rpm but is really hard to tell, i think today after 30 years it is more a matter on how good the engine is and how well tuned is

i do not believe the early S1 and late S1 have any internal differnce in the engines, as well as they have the same carbs
from my research smaller carbs came during S2 production around 1981

 

Yesterday was the dedication of the Lamborghini ASCL (Advanced Composite Structures Lab).

Had a very nice selection of the older cars along with the new Centenario. It was nice to get an invitiation to display the Countach.

Mike
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One more photo.

Mike
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I have done an analysis on the Miura engine, it shows that that the difference between the S1/S2 and S3 is most likely real. For every 2mm change in choke size there is a 16 to 17 hp change in power up to 36mm. Over 36mm the engine performance is limited by the valve size and cam lift/duration on the Miura. This performance change suggests the hp change between the 45 and 40 mm Webers on the CT is real.

Cheers Jim

 

Didn't see this posted in the thread, was cleaning out CDs came across this Kool and the Gang CD, back cover had this Countach with an unusual inlay of wood in the door panel. Wonder what the fate of this car was (and the CD year was listed as 1987).
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If I recall correctly I seem to remember this car being offered for sale in the past 3 or 4 years.

 

I belive this car was sold in California. I had supplied the then new owner with original rear rims. It was modded with wood inserts, sun roof and flared fenders a 5000 2 valve

 

The car is in the UK with an FChatter.

 

Jim I am with you 100%.

I find that the Doubting Thomases who say "they are all the same" only do so because they themselves do not possess the information which shows that all production variants of Miura & Countach received ongoing upgrades as production went along.

That much is indisputable at this point, after several decades of more focused research.