Nice site. The pictures of the black 308 with the Saratoga top are of my car. I took those pictures in my driveway right after I bought it to show you guys. The owner of the site pulled those photos from here.
Interesting information. Nicely done. It is great to see that someone is documenting the differences between the various Model Years.
I'm waiting for the usual black fender vent model year mistakes to show up there later. This guy may actually know better.
Well, hopefully there is a feedback loop where we can correct mistakes. Yeah, I've spotted a couple of anomalies for my Oct 83 car. For example, I have a "seat belt" light in my instruments and the rear few inches of the bottom edge my engine lid are painted black. According to the webpages, these changes weren't supposed to happen until the Dec 83 change over to the lambda QVs. These are either actual factory inconsistencies or errors in the webpages.
I am not the only one working on this project, we are a few owners here on F-Chat, but as I take care about the website, I am often the first to answer questions. We have been working for years searching for all the specifications changes during 308-328 production. It is a "work in progress" for sure and they may have some minor errors, especially because all markets are different and had their changes not on the same time. We tried to be as thorough as possible about what is on the site, which is why we have many details waiting to be posted. It is a really hard job to cross check every data and we have a hard time working on US cars without the opportunity seeing them very often here in Europe.... You can imagine for sure that during all these years reading F-Chat, I naturally learnt a lot from all of you and I thank you for it. Our goal was to illustrate as much as we can so I took a lot of pictures from here for the US market model. If whoever wants that I remove a private or personal photo, that he does not hesitate to say it, I have already made it without any problem immediately. Even if it is a non-commercial website, I feel very concerned by the image rights. ( for the Saratoga top, one of the author has one but that particular picture was much nicer to see clearly the roof... ) We do every two months some updates to share what we noticed, there are a lot to come, but still waiting for pictures. If you see something that you think it is wrong, please don't hesitate to share your knowledge. Concerning the delicate point raised by Brian of the paint scheme for the rear part of the engine lid, I had to write a date, maybe it is not the good one and if your car is still with original paint, then I have to correct it. Paint scheme change end of December for QV and before, on commercial brochure, that part was painted body color. I have brochure of the injection 2v also with that scheme but I learned with the production of these years to always question myself. Concerning the seat belt sign, US cars always had it on the dashboard, maybe the sentence has to be written in another direction to make it more understandable. What change on the dashboard, is the seat belt sign goes to the opposite of the slow down sign at the same period of december 1983 when the two lights around the column were deleted. (then both sign were each part of the button like it is illustrated on the website) On the other hand, i am afraid I don't catch the post of Dr Tommy Cosgrove about the rear fender, I am still learning, we often find new peculiarities to be illustrated. That's why we decided to make a website, it is very easy and fast to correct if we found we give a wrong information. Don't forget we are not professional, it is a web site made by enthusiast owners that's it. We wanted to share what we know, so, every input is muchly appreciated, be sure of that ! There is a French expression which says "a bottomless well".... Ferrari SpA from that period was partly handmade and had still an artisanal organisation of work... I want to thank the members who warned me of the opening of this post !
I want to thank you for building the great site. I would be happy to contribute any info I would have.
It is a GREAT Project!!!!! Keep going and take any criticism as an honest attempt to help. For example, my '81 NA, GTSi has a flexible map pocket on the passenger's seat back with locking flap.
I don't have a problem with using my pictures. I actually think it's cool they are there. I love the website and your efforts. Anything I can do to help just ask or pm me.
Here is a thought. Rename the site 'The 3X8 Wiki' Then everyone should know it is a perpetual work in progress and all new info is welcome. Again, I think it's GREAT. MARCH ON!!!!
Thanks to all of your welcome, I hope to have been clear enough on the fact that it is a participative work, any member whom want to join the team is greatly invited...(one of the author live in Japan) I am just the interface which collects the data of owners from vetroresina version to the last 328... To answer to your questions, the deepest criticisms come from us, so I am used to taking into account notices given by every serious people. But that is true that we had to make compromise, it has to stay simple and clear to manage, none of us are in the business of making website and we invest anything but time in it. That's why there is a lot of picture of our cars but I use even more from what I found anywhere else (mostly from dealer ads) when the quality is good. I can't really go to a "wiki" style because as you may already experienced, "parking lot" talk are often directed on the fact that " my car is like that thus all the others should it be" which are rather sterile and we would have gone to something with a lack of seriousness... It is in fact partially for that we began to list the changes. When one of us says, " it is strange on my vetroresina, this part is like this and on yours like that...."and a third answer "and it is even diferent on my stell..." Then we all become addict.... Some specs are only for 50 cars sometime.... One can say that to discuss hours the size of the tyre pressure label of the spare wheel does not present a big interest and I share this feeling especially with what takes place in the world today but well, it is a pastime as an other one. To be honest, one showed me at its release the famous Dino compendium and I always said myself: "but why it does not exist for 308 ", but I neither claim to be able nor the ways to compete with this publisher. Having said that, and I finish it with it, yes, the flat back pocket with key starts with the introduction of the modified interior of the injection 2v. It is illustrated in the page of this specific version. (but the first car with it was the one from Mr Fioravanti much earlier). If anyone wants to correct any of the date, he is welcome. Concerning the cam cover, engine castings and transmission differences, it is a big chapter, we are doing it little by little because the Euro species car did not change a lot compare to US (from the first double air pump F106 to the end of production). It takes time to collect infos about that so if you have a resume, I am interested. To give you just one example (but there plenty in progress): The next update will be on QV, I am trying to be the most precise possible on the date of change of the injector assembly. And also the passage from the defrost rectangular button of US version to the squared one, then the position change from the rear of the console to the one of the antenna. So I'm looking at cars between 34147 to 34309; 48771 to 49293 and 50409 to 51029... I am collecting infos always on chassis number because of Euro cars, it is very difficult to have a production date, only the factory can give it so even if we cross checked with US cars which have on the door jamb, it is easiest to do it that way. Sorry to be maybe too long to read.....
Looking forward to your 80-82 injected section. That is my favorite model. I took photos of many back when they were relatively new (as in before owners began to modify them to their personal tastes) Feel free to use any pictures you like. They all have dates. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/322953-vintage-pictures-i-took-308s-1981-1997-a.html
I paged through more of your documentation this morning. What you have already done is absolutely remarkable. World class. Exceeds anything available at this point. Using a web-based medium will certainly facilitate continual improvement as compared to past textbook media which as static and error-prone. There are so many inaccuracies and omissions in existing materials. THANK YOU for suffering through the investigation and debates and analysis to get this all right. You are creating important historical documentation. I am the second owner of the car so feel bad that I can only raise the question without providing an authoritative answer. My paint looks quite fresh, but whether that is because it is a garaged-parked California car that has never seen rain or whether the lid paint has been (incorrectly) redone, I cannot say.
Very neat, the sheer volume of running changes to the model thru the production run in each market is going to make that project a BIG one. I'm honestly not that informed on the interior or body of the 3x8 to know all the changes etc.. The engines and gearboxes I've gone thru enough of them to see a lot of changes and minor differences and that is only scratching the surface! When you go thru the parts books Ferrari will list parts based on engine serial number and casting number ranges, there is a lot of parts with that notation!
Thanks to all for your comments. We really appreciate ! Here is the link to the page of the injected version. It is the smallest page of the website because there weren't a lot of spec changes in this version. 308-328.com I know already your thread with your vintage pictures, I am following it since the beginning. it is so interesting to see those cars in the time. I especially love the pictures of the black cars at the beach ! It helped me a lot to find how few parts were when cars were leaving the factory. But let me show you an example of how the puzzle is quite complicated. To answer to Brian A whom said that its engine lib bottom edge is black, it is certainly how the car left the factory because on Dr Tommy Cosgrove thread, post #84, an owner post some pictures of the factory in October 1983, on those pictures, you can see one QV with the A and B arms bodycolor with the rocker panel still bodycolor as well, and the bottom edge engine lid black. And two pictures after, you can see a silver QV with still the A and B arms black and the rocker panel bodycolor.... That only means that it is not simple to be precise. The conditional is really the only time to use with Ferrari production of this period... I will correct the website anyway soon....
Probably because it was October 83 and the 83 models were closing and the 84 models were just getting started. Overlapping models still on the line to some degree. One thing we know is Ferrari didn't draw a line and stop one model year and begin the next. Carbed 308's were being built with production 2Vi's. 2Vi's were still being built along side QV's and so on. Thumbing through Urban's serial number book shows that to clearly be the case. So we are probably looking at a 84 model red car and a 83 model silver car. But I'm just guessing.
BTW, in case you missed my thread on that black car on the beach: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/476488-lets-look-some-pictures-same-308-31-years-later.html
The 4th photo on post #84 really shows how messy it is in October 1983. Behind the 308 with the '84 style paint job are two other 308s; one painted '83 style and the other painted '84 style: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/1322868d1305400515-vintage-pictures-i-took-308s-1981-1997-factory-visit-oct-83-04.jpg Photo 3 shows these three same cars from the other direction. Additionally, in front of the two red 308s in this photo is a white 308 with '83 style boxer paint: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/1322867d1305400515-vintage-pictures-i-took-308s-1981-1997-factory-visit-oct-83-03.jpg Another view is: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/1322869d1305400558-vintage-pictures-i-took-308s-1981-1997-factory-visit-oct-83-05.jpg Are there '84 style cars with October 1983 build dates? Alternatively, I wonder if Ferrari "post dated" the door VIN plates for '84 style to show a December 1983 build date?
In my opinion, both of you might be very close to the true… About the various models built simultaneously, according to reliable return of which I was able to have from several sources which worked on that period for the factory, I think it is a little more complicated than that. In fact, the factory collected all the dealer orders and then assigned chassis numbers (the order of the assembly sequence number followed itself then more or less inside the same batch of production because frames were made in lot according to the standards of the market of destination). That is why there has not really had the possibility of ordering a model or variant which replaced together. An injection 2v chassis number smaller than a carbs for the same market is very rare (maybe on 1 or 2 chassis at the time of the assignment). That's why we have at least one Euro steel with a chassis number previous to the last vetroresina etc… it is the same for more or less every change of models. This reflection applies to every market independently of each other, I mean there that we all know that the production for the US market began always well before the Euro, then after came the RHD. So just looking at the chassis numbers, we see in fact, that the productions are crossed, but by combining market+chassis number+Scaglietti number, one can see a rather good homogeneity in the production (that said always of course conditional). To this is added the fact that from the moment or a chassis number has been assigned, nothing is less on that they go out again in the same order at the end of the chain because according to the options, according to the colors there is little by little a gap in the manufacturing (or simply because of part availability). Add to this the fact that afterwards, the car could be delayed it after the tests, it had to return on the chain for adjustment. This often happened without this being really particular for the brand. So looking at these images of October, 1983, we see that the QV which already has the new paint scheme is a little bit special version with a leather dashboard, this explains maybe it. I think that all these scheme changes were not made (or decided) at the same time (I speak about the rear cover, the rocker panels and A & B arm), but within a few months. Why? Mystery … If we could have more photos of this time … However, I guess I do not learn you much about all this and it remains a quite personal feeling about the production, that is only my opinion. I may be completely off reality.
