The only people who ask for manual gearboxes are...

Personally, I would not buy a new manual car. They even LOOK slow with a stick. I do love driving stick and I have several options however in my truck, my DD, my family car, I prefer to slam it in D and drink coffee, conduct phone calls and other stuff than be bothered to manually do anything else. I have driven the 458 and obviously it is the pinnacle of modern sport car. I'm just glad to have the old manual "option "at our fingertips.
I've said it before, as far as Ferrari goes, the manual belongs right where Ferrari left it. In the 355 and the 550 (as a primary gear box).

 

What about the 400 series automatics . I still enjoy the the thump when my 412 hydramatic
changes gears. !

 

Gated cars = +1.

 

I have a 2015 Corvette Z06 with Z07 package, 7 speed manual and neat-trick rev-matching technology. GM got that formula right! Hilarious fun to drive, fast, engaging, far more hp and torque for the rear wheels to handle if you want to hang the rear out at almost anytime.
What a great great car.
My 458 though is in a different league altogether. Crazy quick, electrifying sound, razor fast shifts, explosive sounding downshifts...a completely different driving experience.
My F12 then steps out another dimension with gorgeous GT cruising ability. I joke my Titanio F12 is actually my stealth car if I don't want to be seen. Again, completely different experience for different moods.
Ferrari knows what it is doing...and so does Chevy. All are equally fast and capable as the other around a track, the wildcard variable being the driver...not the car.

 

The 911r is 180k base, cali t is 205k base. 911r is a cheaper car.

Viper is being discontinued due to lack of sales (one reason being lack of dct). I think it's a great car and the manual is not out of place in it,but the market has spoken.

Alfa 4c is dct only.

Ferrari still builds their track specials every generation, but any of their cars are very competent on track, cali included.

Don't get me wrong, I love a manual and specifically searched for a gated car when I bought my 355. But, a manual in a modern ferrari would be like having to fiddle with carbs and a manual choke on my 355, it'd be anachronistic.

 

A gas powered ferrari aluminum is already anachronistic. They stopped doing race cars in aluminum what 30 years ago. A V12 is certainly anachronistic.

Sheilds are something that never were on street cars, till more recent marketing efforts to tie the street cars to track cars, which is the whole ferrari marketing push to customers who cant really drive anyway.

Many of those systems on modern cars is so that the car can be driven by mortals, ie limiting the power and traction so someone can actualy drive the 660hp monster. More power and more speed does zip if its necessary to limit it electronicaly. Where does it end, at 1000hp v8 ferraris, thats ultimatelya dead end, rather make superlative really fast drivers cars, you cars that can reward in way overpowered sedans (amg) cant. .

Ferrari does many things for tradition, marketting, and a whole host of economic reasons which have nothign to do with cutting edge performance.

Yes a stick coupled to a 458 engine which is peaky would have sucked. But Ferrari could easily mate one to a lightened 488 and begat the modern F40. It would be entirely in keeping with their ethos, just not the poseur ersatz F1 domintaed strain of their ethos.

As to 911r being cheaper because its stick, thats patently ridiculous. its more expensive than a GT3 which is paddle only. Cayman Gt4 more expensive than a pdk cayman.

Sticks go on either really cheap cars these days, or on more expensive cars where the driver is paying extra for a whole host of intangibles such as feedback and feel along with light weight and more performnce than can be used anyway.

Lets see how many BMW M2s sell with a manual and a DCT. My bet is 30+% manual which is a good buisness case.

Viper sales sucked not because of the stick. Corvette sells more sticks than ferraris entire sales.

As to pedestrian ferraris being competant on track, the 458s were, not the others, unless we have a very different definition of competant. In any event pretty much every 911 and cayman is competant on track, the cali we are talkign Jaguar Ftype competant we are not talking a major acomplishemnt here.


Whats really imnportant is ferrari makes some truly rewarding and engaging drivers cars, that was always part of their ethos and from my experience with the newer ones, they are not really rewarding to drive unless rewarding means nth degree performance at 10/10ths, and then yes they are competant, none of which is relevant on the street.

I can only speak of my own experience, neither the 458 nor the mp12 excited as road car, and were limited as track cars and consequently I spent nearly the same money elsewhere(not porche). I am not the only one, or the only ferrari owner who feels this way.

 

When you need at the F12 new clutch, you have to pay 25.000€. More to say????
I was driven a 599 with F1. So slowly changing the gears. When I want Automatic, I buy a MB. The F1 or DSG are really awfull. The same **** like Launch Control! Thats something for people that can not change the gears! For a 599 with manual gears, you pay five times the price of 599 with F1. Why ?????

 

The 911R is for collectors. Rumor has it they will, thankfully, resume MT GT3 cars.

Alfa 4C would sell much better if it came with a MT.

To me, DCT is good for track specialists and people who can't drive. Sadly, the ladder are the majority of DCT buyers.

And how many people really do track their Ferraris? For everyone else that is an enthusiast, the MT is the better choice.

 

Well said.

 

If we are truly building for maximum performance, the same should be said for radios, speakers, bluetooth, navigation, leather, carpet, cupholders (even $10K carbon fiber ones), power windows, power seats, power locks, convertible tops, glass windows, and very expensive factory tool kits in fancy leather bags.

If one is willing to accept the performance penalty from lugging around all the above extra weight, one should be willing to accept the performance penalty of a manual transmission.

In a nutshell, if a car is street legal, then by definition buyers aren't truly concerned about maximum performance.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE driving DCT cars. I think they are fun in their own way. I would just prefer there to be a choice for buyers. If some people enjoy driving paddle shift cars more, then that's great. I won't knock them for that. But to me, the "maximum performance" argument for any street car is pretty silly. It is a street car, and therefore inherently compromised as far as maximum performance goes.

 

Agreed Nathan, that is my position on the subject as well.

 

None of us will ever understand or explain Ferrari logic, or lack of. They are still using the same failing soft touch on cars and I get asked every day, why? Who knows. They do what they want and it's apparently not hurting them as a business.

What's the wait on a car now? 1-2 years?

Right or wrong, I don't see Ferrari doing anything different any time soon.

 

I agree as well. I love driving a stick shift. I have almost mastered heel toe shifting in my boosted Miata but my feet are kind of big and I prefer to blip and brake with the same foot. If I could have found a 360 Spider with gated shifter that I could afford, I would have bought one. My 348 Spider was gated. The cables sucked and the gate was wearing on the shaft probably due to improper cleaning of the chrome with ammonia based products. I just finished greasing it when the stupid kid crossed the center line and hit me in May.

But I do enjoy the F1 system. I noticed it was slow between 1st and 2nd on my test drive. I researched this and found a CS TCU to upgrade with. It's currently at the shop being installed. When you take time to learn the system and master it (not let it master you) then you can enjoy it more. Sure you do lose some feel for the road and the car but knowing the system is part of that and I have already improved my command over the transmission even before I dropped it off.

I wonder how much of the clutch is actually operated by F1 drivers. There are 4 paddles on an F1 race car wheel. But all I've seen is a "flamm" like stroke from the driver's fingers. Not some juggler-magician, slight-of-hand "driver's car" command finesse.

 

I can't speak for the Z06 but I HATED the C7 manual 7 speed box.

And, what's the point of rev matching? The only thing you do is push the clutch and move a stick. The car does the rest. The only difference between this and an F1 is you pretend to know how to heal and toe.

 

Mayor, yet again i find myself in agreement with you. Is there some weird planet alignment going on?

 

This all started when I posted that I liked the McLaren 570s.

 

I just bought a 2000 550. I wanted to buy a V12 Ferrari with gated shifter before I was priced out of the market. (This happened to me 35 yrs ago when I passed on buying a 275GTB for $30,000.)

My girlfriend said, why are you buying an old car when you can get a later model California? Answer: I want a Ferrari V12 with gated shifter. I want the mechanical/visceral experience of lifter noise and gears clicking into place when I shift right.

 

They've gone aluminum for cost. You get the CF if you put up the big bucks for the LaF. They will all be CF when it's mass producible with the same strength and light weight as the hand laid limited production and race cars have, otherwise it's pointless, more money for the no weight/strength gain (see: Aventador). I think the 4c tub was the big experiment in trying to make the high strength/low weight CF mass producible, not sure if that's a success or not yet. But yeah, aluminum will be gone once they've cracked that, too.

I fear V12's are on their death bed, even at Ferrari.

911r is a cheaper car than any Ferrari, that's not really questionable. Porsche's high end car is the 918, which is DCT only, and for good reason.

Looking at track lap times, all of the modern Ferraris are perfectly competent, and will handle a base 'competent' 911 fairly easily, even the 'lowly' cali T. The Cali T is as fast as an F40 around Fiorano, faster with the Handling Speciale package and on par with a 430. If you consider a new cayman or 911 competent on track, then any new Ferrari will be more than competent as well, even the cali t.

BT, radio, AC etc. are concessions to driver and passenger comfort. A manual doesn't enhance driver or passenger comfort for the street, probably the opposite in most cases.

Race cars usually have a form of AC (cool suit at least) and a radio as well, just used for different purposes. However, you'd have to admit that AC is a much more elegant solution to driver and passenger comfort than making both wear cool suits, no? What problem does the MT solve? It just creates some.

Listen, as I said, I love manuals and have one. I just don't see them serving any purpose in a new Ferrari. They're slow and reduce driver control (and computer control) of the car. The market, and Ferrari, seem to agree.

 

No. It might add another 10-20% to the numbers but it would not sell "much better"

The Corvette C7 offers a manual and is even lower cost than the Auto box.

The manual numbers for Vettes are about 20% and are dropping even further every year. Their new Auto 8 is hurting manuals even more because it's not like an old fashioned slush box.

 

To each his own I guess. I like the Z06 manual gearbox, car shifts beautifully.
Rev matching makes for fun shifting on the track...which I have done at Sebring and the car performed beautifully.

 

Funny Mcalren makes a CF tub cost effectively even on the cheaper 570.

point is ferrari is not all about performance. There is lots in ferraris that are about tradition and pure brand marketing.

The reason they dont do a manual is because its far easier and cheaper to just do one transmssion. Emissions and fuel economy regs are way easier with DCT, as well as more than 50% of customers prefer a DCT. Ferrari is lazy and arrogant. They got spoiled by sucessfully making really expensive cars/handbags for men of means.

The fact is when you look at porche, after abandoning manuals for their highest performance cars and then the unplanned sucess of the 911R and GT4(plus rumored new manual option Gt3)the arguement that no one wants a manual flys out the window. In fact these porche cars are the very types bought by enthusiasts who also tend to track. yes its a niche but a healthy profitable niche, and a client base that underpins the "brand" in way that Paris Hilton in a 430 cannot.


Cali lap times, GTRs and ZO6 can also post great laptimes for liek 4 laps, on that basis they are the best cars out there, but 4 laps means nothing. Competant on track means consistent great times for say 20-30 laps, a cali aint in that category, but a z28 is.

Ferraris today are mostly fashion acessories and the company has done well serving that market, too bad it servs that market now almost exclusively.

As to the 918, hey lets ban the steerrign wheel, I think audi has a robot car that does better laptimes than a driver. How far do we remove the driver and driver skill before its just carnival ride. So yeah the 918 is hybrid and pdk so its faster than a carrerra GT when driven by walter Rhol. I know which one I would take on my 7am sunday drive and its not a 918.

That is not to say that DCT sucks, as some have said all out on track it can be great. Its also good for drivign in traffic or if you cant really drive like 90+% of exotic owners.

None of which meas manufactuerers shouldnt make viceral cars for those who really appreciate them. A manual is part of what might make a car viceral and alive, its certainly not the only part, or even the single most critical part (that would be steering feedback)

When music went to an ipod the highs and low were lost in the name of convenience. I ma not even arguing for vinyl, CDs are agret.

Modern ferraris and most porche have lost a lot too in the name of convenience for the mass who cant drive but can afford the car. Ferrari can and should serve both constituencies, but like sticky parts they are so far sucessful enough not to care, however they need to care if they want to get to 10k units, or even stay an it brand.

These days serious drivers apply elsewhere, and its sort of embarrasing being introduced as someone who owns a ferrari, because of how the "brand" and its owner type is percieved these days.

 

Just a small FYI...you're not helping your case when you can't spell "Porsche."

 

I cant spell in general, for which I aplogise to all readers here.

 

Bottom line, there are two schools of thought on DCT, and exess removal of the driver by computers in general, the majority love it for various reasons, and there is a very comited minority to alive and viceral cars. Other manufactuerers find it economicaly viable to serve this minority and the majority, and this enthusiast minority gives their brand diporportianate kudos.

Ferrrari in their wisdom arrogance or lazyness would rather alienate this minority and have them shop elsewhere, which is trange behaviour for brand driven company looking for more sales niches within a self imposed niche(2 door sportscars)..