Euro spec Ferrari 355 Rear fog lights

hi there..

I debated to post this topic in the Europe section... but most of the knowledge on the 355 is right here.. did some research initially but only found bits of info.. so decide to post new thread..

I have a 1997 euro spec 355..

early on.. I learnt the front lower fogs were only functional as flashers on Euro spec 355's. I don't have the front fog button. I was pretty disappointed cause I like the look of the car even in daylight with the front fogs.

however today for some reason.. I turned my attention to understand how the rear fogs work. I have a rear fog button to the right of the suspension button on centre console. the same spot the front fog button would have been.


1. all lights completely off, my outer rear tail lights turn on when I press brake pedal.
with lights on, they are illuminated red. and then get brighter when press brake pedal.
2. the center lens in outer rear tail lights are for blinkers
3. the center lens of inner tail light is reverse
4. my owners manual says the inner tail lights are "rear fogs". they are off at all times. even with light switch to full on position.


with lights to full on position, if I press the "rear fog" switch, I see the light appear in the upper left corner of dash. but here is the issue...

1. only my right inner tail rear fog turns on. the left is off. so obviously that means I have a burnt bulb in the left one.

2. this is the mystery.... when I press the rear fog switch, it does not stay on...?? it makes a nice click, I see the indicator light up on the dash, and then when I let go it goes off..? so what the heck is that, I don't see that it would be expected to require keeping your finger on the switch lol..? or does this have to do with the wiring system knowing one side is burnt thus not keeping it engaged..? keep in mind I am doing these steps with the car off, with key turned all the way just before ignition.


anyways.. these little things drive me absolutely nuts..

any help/feedback appreciated..

thanks

PS: for US/Canadian spec cars, are the inner tails just empty. other then the center reverse light..?

 

Momentary vs non momentary switches look the same but the covers are different. Many people take switches apart and don't know how to reassemble them and do so properly. This might be the case with your switch (as someone put the wrong cover on)

 

The rear fog switch is a purely mechanical two position switch. It sounds like the switch is faulty if it won't stay on. (EDIT: Error... See Dave's response below). The door lock/unlock switches are the spring-loaded (momentary) type (so different).

I have had the electrical plugs at the back of the switches connected to the wrong switches, but in your case, they are correct (as you're getting the dash light to illuminate).

 

Ian, they are basically the same. The main difference that controls the momentary vs non momentary is the switch cover. We assemble disassemble these daily. All versions have springs.

 

Sorry guys, thanks Dave, my mistake.

Do the covers have the decals/legends on them or is that part of the switch base?

 

I see Eurospares show the switch as P/N 165254 (for UKP67.04 plus postage, plus VAT as applicable). Not sure if they're in stock, though.

Can you buy the cover separately?

Tony, if you're changing the switch, be very very careful with the baseplate. It is very fragile. Try to get good access to both sides of the plate.

 

The icons are separate parts that snap out of the covers.

No. The switches are sold as a full assembly.

 

hi.. thanks for the feedback..

yes my Rear fog switch is in the correct position in the console as per owners manual.. and yes.. when I click it.. I get the amber rear fog indicator in the upper left of dash.. so in those aspects all is correct.

I would agree that logically this would be an On ( press once) or Off ( press again) switch.. but in my case.. it doesn't stay on. I have to hold the switch down, once I let go it switches off... but it does make the click noise

I thought maybe this had to do with the burnt bulb on the left side..which I will get replaced as soon as possible.. but once I get that done.. I guess will have to investigate the switch.. as I would like to have the rear fogs on at night..

unless the burnt bulb has something to do with not letting the switch remain on...?

I wasn't even using the rear fogs up to now.. but now that I decided to play around with it.. it just grinds my gears that its not working..

 

Were your lights modified when it was imported?

Mine is a euro they added the side miker lights to the bumpers. And half assed it so ive always wondered what else was different between the lights on a euro vs the state side cars but I haven't researched it yet.

 

Tony, all the swithces make a click sound but the two position make a snap. In NA, the fog light switch is 2 position, or non momentary. The operator turns it on or off, unlike the window switch or door lock.

 

not sure if it was modified.

I have red side markers on both front and rear bumpers
and have the euro spec blinker bulbs on the front fenders where shields go.

nonetheless my rear fogs are functioning correctly, the only issue I'm having is the rear fog switch is not staying in the on position and my left rear fog bulb is burnt. only the right is coming on. and it's a half moon on the right side of right rear fog. therefore the left rear fog should light up the left side half moon.

by the way are the rear inner tails just empty on north American cars?

 

That's a good point (but not related to your problem) ... On Left Hand Drive cars, the switch positions are reversed (mirrored left to right) . Even though my lights are based on the Euro car, I have a Left Hand Drive car. When I bought the car, the console switches/plugs were completely jumbled up... took me a while to figure out where the plugs and switches were supposed to be (Had to use wiring colours, etc).

 

I know many Euro spec cars ONLY have a fog light on the RIGHT side at the rear, it's completely normal.

My Fiat Coupè was like that and many cars in Europe are like that also. It looks weird bit that's how it is...I had to explain it to the guy at inspection when I first bought the car because he was about to write down that I had a burnt light.

 

Curiouser and curiouser. Why would you make a car less safe by only illuminating one light? I know some European cars (BMW, etc) used to illuminate only one Parking light (but I assume this was to save the battery from going flat)

I wonder if this single light feature is mentioned in the driver's manual?

 

The single rear fog-light is based on the theory that it makes it easier to distinguish the fog-light from the brake lights in thick fog.

 

Gees.. this is pretty ridiculous..

other then having to trouble shoot the switch itself..

I don't see how it makes sense.. that only the right rear fog illuminates on a euro car.

initially.. I googled what the rear fogs were for.. and the definition was that they are required by law in Europe and surrounding areas.. so that drivers can see you better in poor visibility conditions such as heavy rain, fog etc.. this is why they are voluntarily turned on by the driver if/when needed.. otherwise they are off at all times..

which is how ive been driving the car up to now at night.. with them off.. meaning the outer tails are the only ones illuminated at night..

also when I do hold the switch down to keep it on.. its only the right side Half moon lit of the right rear fog.. so its not even the whole thing lit..

 

imaging that.. check out this vid I found.. must be in Europe..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jINrFUW7MKk

bunch of cars running through fog condition... and can see only the right side rear fog illuminated..?

and here is the definition of rear fogs:

In Europe and other countries adhering to UN Regulation 48, vehicles must be equipped with one or two bright red "rear fog lamps", which serve as high-intensity rear position lamps to be turned on by the driver in conditions of poor visibility to make the vehicle more visible from the rear

personally, if its possible.. Id just prefer to stick a bulb in the left rear fog... in an event of such condition to use them.. last thing I need is to be pulled over by a cop thinking the left side is burnt.. and to have to try to explain that its normal..lol..

and then I have to troubleshoot to get the dam switch to stay on..?

 

Tony, switches are pretty cheap on the used market. See if you can locate one - that why you will have a better idea if it works properly.

 

ya I will see what I can figure out.. i'll check with my tech first to see if he can get the existing switch to stay on..

now that it has been confirmed that only right side rear fog on is correct/normal, if I put a bulb in the left side.. will it work..?

 

If the switch (by design), is supposed to stay on (non-momentary) then the problem is:

A) Someone replaced the cover with the wrong type

B) Someone took the spring and detents out

C) Someone took it apart and put it back together wrong

D) Something is broken

First, try to confirm it's supposed to stay latched. Taking these apart and putting them back together is a bit tricky and it requires a custom tool to be fabricated.

If I have some time, we will create a video.

 

aha. I just removed the bulb housing from both inner tails. they both have bulbs for reverse and both have a rear fog bulb. so it is indeed supposed to be both sides when rear fog button pressed. and means left side is burnt. so all I need to do is get a new bulb. and figure out how to fix the button. or get a new one.

there is also a slot for a third bulb on inner tails. but it's blocked off with a plastic tab. looks like it could be cut out, but can't see if it has a socket. but I'll forget about that. just want to get at least the two illuminated.

 

You may well find that the wiring and bulb contacts are missing on the other side.

 

I will swap the right bulb into the left socket.. and see if it lights up the left or not..

 

so I swapped right (good) bulb to the left and it lit up perfect.
so that confirms 100% both sides are supposed to light up when rear fog button pushed.

however as mentioned in previous posts the rear fog lights up only half the tail.
and now that I opened it up the left and right are reversed.
the right side was lighting up the outter half
and the left was positioned to light up the inner half.

so I removed the bolts to rotate the tail on one side so that they both matched to light up the inner half.

but doesn't look like the tail can come out to rotate it with the challenge grill there. looks like the tail light has a lip all the way around. that snags on the grill opening for the tail light

so that pretty much sucks that the grill would have to come off just to rotate the tail light??

all this energy for a little thing that I wasn't even using previously. that's OCD for you.

 

Crazy... I wonder if it has been like this since it was built?

Tony, if you do remove the light assembly, would you be able to see if the lens easily separates from the body? I see some parts distributors are offering lenses for sale (by themselves) at a lower cost than the full light assembly, but I don't know what is involved in the replacement.

Thanks!

P.S. The fog light wiring is yellow. I assume all those cars with a yellow wire going to the both lights should have two functioning fog lights.