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Reverse gear wont engage 360 Challenge

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Moc78, Jun 27, 2016.

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  1. Moc78

    Moc78 Rookie

    Nov 27, 2012
    25
    Melbourne Australia
    #1 Moc78, Jun 27, 2016
    I've asked this question in the challenge race car forum without any luck so will try here... I have a 360 Challenge race car that wont go in to reverse.

    When attempting to engage reverse gear I can hear what sounds like the gearbox trying to select the gear but doesn't manage to engage. This is for reverse gear only. All forward gears select ok (except that when changing up gears the gear indicator flashes N briefly but this doesnt seem to affect the engagement of the forward gears). I heard this may be an indicator of a worn clutch, but not sure if it is related to my reverse gear problem.

    Some possibilities I can think of:
    1. Clutch is worn
    2. PIS setting incorrect
    3. F1 actuator not holding pressure
    4. Internal linkage in gearbox disconnected (?)

    Any ideas where else I should look??
    Thanks in advance
     
  2. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #2 fastradio, Jul 2, 2016
    What are your SD-2/equivalent diagnostic readings?
     
  3. NoSpeedLimit

    NoSpeedLimit Karting

    Sep 6, 2013
    185
    #3 NoSpeedLimit, Jul 2, 2016
    Will it go into reverse when the motor is not running?
    Google "maserati no reverse". I think, I found some threads, but I am too lazy to read everything.
     
  4. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

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    #4 24000rpm, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    hi, fellow 360c owner, you got the exact 2 symptoms as I have, now.

    I solved the "no reverse" problem by replacing the early TCU with an adjustable one and adjusting the PIS. What TCU are you using? got a picture?

    I am yet to solve the N flash problem and I'll pull the gearbox in a few days





     
  5. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
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    #5 John_K_348, Jul 2, 2016
    Yeah what year is your car? Turn the battery switch off and on. Make sure you step on the brake, belt buckled, door closed. I am still learning all of this ;)
     
  6. Moc78

    Moc78 Rookie

    Nov 27, 2012
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    #6 Moc78, Jul 3, 2016
    I've had a ferrari dealer here go through the relearn procedure with the TCU (where it cycles through the gears) but this didnt help - unfortunately they werent much use with a race car (not that it should make much difference)

    No won't go into gear with the engine not running - Thanks will look into the maserati issue.

    This is a good point - Is the challenge TCU non adjustable for PIS? I'm not with the car at the moment but will have a look next weekend at the TCU number. I have read somewhere that the N flashing between gears is an indicator of a worn clutch.

    Car is a 2000 model. Tried all of the above - no go!
     
  7. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

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    #7 24000rpm, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
    If your car is 2000 and nobody ever replaced the TCU then yes, your TCU is a non-adjustable one, just like mine. If replacing TCU isn't an option, there are other tricky ways to adjust it via other parameters, which I am not familiar with. Other members of the forum are gurus on this though, try search "early TCU" and look for the topic.

    If your car reverse ok before and suddenly displayed this sumptom , it is also possible because of a worn throw out bearing. Keep in mind, I am no guru, just a try-and-see-what-will-happen kinda guy.


     
  8. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    #8 rustybits, Jul 3, 2016
    Your giving this guy wrong info. His is a CHALLENGE car. It's entirely different. It has a different TCU using different parameters. All the "change the TCU, shut the door" stuff is wrong.....
     
  9. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

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    #9 24000rpm, Jul 4, 2016
  10. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

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    #10 24000rpm, Jul 4, 2016
    when your car is standing still and engine off, ignition on , foot on brake, if you change gear, will N appear?
     
  11. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    #11 rustybits, Jul 4, 2016
    What's that got to do with the price of cheese?
     
  12. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
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    #12 windsock, Jul 15, 2016
    This is a common issue with these. Bleed and perform the actuator centering procedure and it will likely resolve the concern. I have an excel sheet to calculate the centering of the actuator. If you give me all the parameter pages form the TCU I can confirm it is a centering issue. The only other possibility is you have a internal issue with the actuator. We rebuild these all the time.
     
  13. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

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    #13 24000rpm, Jul 15, 2016
    will post in 12 hours

     
  14. Moc78

    Moc78 Rookie

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    #14 Moc78, Jul 16, 2016
    Mine is at the workshop at the moment. Checking all TCU parameters first. Will update later this week. Thanks for suggestion re actuator centering procedure - I'll let my mechanic know.
     
  15. fmaderi

    fmaderi Formula Junior

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    #15 fmaderi, Jul 16, 2016
    a dealership that couldnt fix the problem ? there sure is alot of data on my SD 2 or leonardo that im surprised you didnt get going in the right direction . or did they want to soak you . lol. you dont say anything about pressure,pump or noises, wear degree, PIS, fluids ,F1 , GL5, how much use ,is this something new to the car , history etc. enough said . interested to read what you find .so many here never borther to help with feed back . id like to read that spreed sheet winsock . forza !
     
  16. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

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    #16 John_K_348, Jul 16, 2016
    Yup SD2. Let us know.
     
  17. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #17 fastradio, Jul 16, 2016
    Same here on that spreadsheet. Thank you.
     
  18. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

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    #18 24000rpm, Jul 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have 2 TCUs for my 360 challenge.
    1st: CS TCU (CF201 flashed by Eric)
    2nd: Original factory TCU

    the following pictures are taken from 1st: CS TCU. Original TCU will be on next post.
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  19. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

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    #19 24000rpm, Jul 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    the following pictures are from original TCU from factory. Note that both clutch configuration (16.xx) cannot be "write". Not sure if it is a leonardo scantool issue or TCU issue.
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  20. Moc78

    Moc78 Rookie

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    #20 Moc78, Jul 17, 2016
    The ferrari dealer had a quick look but then decided I'd be better off sending the car to the motorsport workshop around the corner. Unfortunately the first time I went to grab reverse after buying the car I noticed the problem. Spoke to the previous owner and mechanic who swear there was no problem when they sold me the car...

    Anyway I'll get the workshop to pull the data and post on here, hopefully this week.
     
  21. Melvin Diagnosi

    Melvin Diagnosi Formula Junior
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    #21 Melvin Diagnosi, Jul 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
    Try pulling data from a sd3 and select the F131 challenge software! and Also check the bleeding on the valve. Try to do a self learn on the gearbox and check your F1 gear lever if it drops it in the self learn in reverse

    Forget About the number on clutch wear etc for a moment Or travel distance etc. Since it s doing all the other gears. Btw could be a stuck solenoid as wel.
     
  22. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

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    #22 24000rpm, Jul 20, 2016
  23. Melvin Diagnosi

    Melvin Diagnosi Formula Junior
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    #23 Melvin Diagnosi, Jul 21, 2016
    Don t think that Will do the trick . Since it has to throw out your 1st and 2nd as Well
     
  24. Moc78

    Moc78 Rookie

    Nov 27, 2012
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    Melbourne Australia
    #24 Moc78, Jul 27, 2016
    So my mechanic swapped my TCU from another challenge car and presto reverse found and no more flashing of neutral between gear changes..
    Next question before I go and fork out a couple of grand for a challenge ECU, is it possible to 'reset' or reflash the existing one to bring it back to life??
    PS still waiting to get a copy of the parameters...
     
  25. Melvin Diagnosi

    Melvin Diagnosi Formula Junior
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    #25 Melvin Diagnosi, Jul 27, 2016
    Yes i think you can remove the flash en re flash it. Problem is Will it work after that. Or is the ecu faulty elsewhere?
     
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