car design thread

I am arguing "Yes' because at a concours like Pebble Beach you have probably 100-150 journalists who will talk it up.
Plus many more educated consumers than at the regular auto show such as the Chicago Auto Show.
Now I'm an exception, I'm trying to spend only $1000 to go to Monterey for five days (and that's staying at the Motel 6 in East Bum___, )but you have many in the crowd at Quail, Pebble, Concorso who are easily qualified to buy an expensive new car.
And not to mention the opportunity it gives pollsters from design studios to ask design clinic type questions like: "Do you really like diamond tufted upholstery in that EXP-10 Bentley, etc.?"

I'd rank the concours in importance
Pebble
Villa d'este
Amelia
Eyes on Design
Quail
but admit I haven't been to two of these.....

 

add this to your list......the former Meadowbrook Concours:
Concours d'Elegance of America at St. John's
at St. John's Plymouth, MI in July

 

Ed Welburn's 44 yr career highlights
Ed Welburn ? 44 Years at GM Design ? Form Trends

 

and this: A Life In Design (Show #2022) on Autoline This Week

 

interview with Tom Matano, Chief Designer of the original Miata.......and a former classmate of mine from Art Center:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QikTOZMUT-s&feature=youtu.be


https://youtu.be/QikTOZMUT-s

 

When I watch this it will be interesting how he deals with the original Miata. Allegedly he has been practicing "revisionist history" on his contribution to the design - claims a lot when it was less than miniscule.

 

You know that and I know that.......it is what it is
Anytime a single individual takes sole credit for a design my radar immediately goes into 'hypersensitive mode'
In this day & age, no one does a car 'all by themselves'..........but..success has many fathers, failure is an orphan

 

"You know who" says that Tom did one (and only one) sketch that was completely useless to the project. The telling part was that for the Miata anniversary there were interviews with Tom and Bob Hall separately. Bob's interviewer brought up Tom and Bob's completely side stepped that one.

 

I see this kind of stuff everyday

 

Peter Stevens weighs in on the new Aston
Aston Martin RB 001

Hyper Car or Hyper Story?

On the cover of one of the UKs weekly car magazines it says “NEW ASTON HYPERCAR – How F1 legend Adrian Newey has changed road cars for ever” – in 2014 Eighty two point eight million cars were produced around the World, that is 82,800,000, or 156 cars every minute; the sales of ultra high performance cars each year are probably around 20,000 of which it is suggested that the AM-RB 001 will add a further 13 cars. 99 road cars and 24 track cars in total. How will these 99 cars ‘change road cars forever?

Loss making car company Aston Martin, having cut 300 jobs in 2015 to counter loses of £58.3 million in that financial year, promises that this new model will be on sale in 2018; that is just 24 months away. CEO Andy Palmer says that the AM-RB 001 “will lap Silverstone’s Grand Prix circuit as fast as an F1 car”; this is quite some claim for a car whose engine, said to be a normally aspirated V12, is to be a totally new design and whose energy capture technology is yet to be decided. A LMP1 car at Silverstone earlier this year recorded a lap of 1min 39.658 seconds in Practice and 1’ 42.182” in the race, Formula One cars will almost certainly break the 1’ 30” barrier at this years F1 Grand Prix so the AM-RB 001 will need to be seriously quick. The weight of a current LMP1 car is in excess of 850kg, and the weight of a current F1 car cannot be less than 702kg; by comparison the La Ferrari weights 1255kg whilst the McLaren P1 weights 1450kg, the Porsche 918 is heavier at 1640kg. All three of these cars has a hybrid ERS or ‘Energy Recovery System’ which with batteries, controllers and motors add considerably to the weight of the cars. The AM-RB 001 is expected to weigh 1000kg, we shall see.

So does it really matter if Palmer is just a little bit optimistic? Probably not if the car is stunning looking, great for cruising the Mediterranean coast roads of France, capable of making a grand entrance at the casino and delivering its beautiful occupants in an elegant manner. What is new about the look of the car that we have not seen a hundred times in design student’s final shows, for example the work of both Ruben Aly De Belle and James Shaw from Swansea School of Art; not a lot. The images that have been released to the World of the AM-RB 001 show a rather bland upper surface in a dull grey yet ultra shiny finish with unbelievably simplistic suggestions of what the head and tail lights may be, and a bubble top that has been seen a dozen times from other manufacturers. The dark grey, or ‘Newey’ bits are interesting but nowhere near as dramatic as can be seen on ‘proper’ race cars. The surfacing on the upper body ranges from competent to unresolved, and there are far too many lines that appear and then just as rapidly disappear; for example around the front corners and behind the front wheel opening. The panel connecting the front wheel housing to the body has a curious kink in it and rapidly becomes alarmingly weak looking as it attaches to the wheel housing, some of these elements look as if they came from different hands.

I have the same thoughts about the AM-RB 001 as I do about the Glikenhaus SCG 003, if a company wants to build a LMP1 car then build one. I can't help feeling that road cars and race cars are two totally seperate machines; either do a proper LMP1 race car and see how you get on against Porsche, Audi and Toyota, or do a wonderful road car that grabs people becase of its sheer beauty.

The compromises necessary to produce a cross between the two will make a poor racecar with challenging interior space and a performance envelope that will require very high levels of skill to extract anything like its true performance. Don't forget that of the 90 Le Mans drivers, if we include LMP2s, not all those guys are that brilliant; that's why they crash

Sure it’s easy to criticise a car like this that will cost between £2 and £3 million pounds (that leaves plenty of latitude for change!) and ‘lap Silverstone as fast as an F1 car’ but people who will spend that much money on a car deserve the very, very best and Aston Martin has not got there yet. Palmer qualifies the look of the car by saying that some changes are likely before the car goes into production, that’s good news.
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for all you Mini haters, in the never a dull moment department, Mini's Chief Designer just left the company, stay tuned
Exclusive: Anders Warming Leaves MINI - GTspirit

 

the 'Hollywood Look" in car design:

The Hollywood Look Runs Deep In Car Design - Petrolicious

 

I don't think I met anyone more outrageous in the car design world than the late Herb Grasse. I was wondering if anyone has any good Herb Grasse stories (he designed the Bricklin). When I met him he had his first automaker job, I think for Ford But insisted on driving as his personal car a custom Corvette. Later, I found out on the net he also redid a Camaro. Was he always owning car owned by "the enemy" automaker? He told me in Australia, where he worked for Ford , he had two Rolls Royces. and I believe hehad two Mahgustas (he named his son Stirling Mangusta Grasse). I also ran into him at the Scottsdale auctions where he was trying to sell fine art. I went to his home out in Cave Creek, modern Arizona home. Basically just want stories about how audacious he was...the farthest you could be from politically correct (yet he lasted in some of these big Corporations far longer than I ever did...)

 

I don't have any outrageous Herb Grasse stories, but I did work with him during my brief stay at Ford Design. I had him paint the gas tank on my motorcycle. He married a Playboy Bunny, and he had some very OTT parties while he was at Ford.
He wound up selling collectable literature towards the end of his life, and I bought a number of cool things from him. Was quite shocked when he passed away at such an early age.
He definitely didn't fit the typical 'corporate mold', that's for sure.

 

Nissan Design video:
https://www.facebook.com/NissanUK/videos/1107126015992228/

 

I'm not a MINI hater, I'm a MINI lover who had been dissatisfied with the direction of the design from the Second Generation (R56) onwards.

What they need to do is something a bit more like Frank Stephenson's effort:

1. Shrink the size back down to First Generation (R50/R53) proportions.
2. Bring back the curvy bonnet with strong fender/headlight arrangements.
3. Tail lights shouldn't be cartoonishly big for the size of the car.
4. Keep weight down and retain go-kart-like handling.
5. Give more feedback through the steering wheel and brake pedal, the second and third generations had softened the ride (good thing) but also reduced feedback through the steering wheel and brake pedals (terrible!) so much so that it was difficult to feel what the wheels were doing. The first generation car's ride was a little harsh, but it was very communicative - an R50 on stock suspension with Mini FSD shock absorbers was both smooth and communicative, so it's possible to soften it up a bit without losing the engaging feel.
6. JCM components (more hardcore than Works components, although homologation is suffering now) should be factory supported: cone air filters, exhausts, brake cooling ducts, strut braces, etc. so as to be properly homologated.
7. No more Vision Next 100 crap. Drive a stake through that heart and bury it with garlic... just in case.

Here's hoping they get their mojo back. I'm cautiously optimistic.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

i never said you were a Mini hater

I'M the one who's not a big fan
For me, the original was one of the truly great automotive designs ever. It revolutionized automobile packaging to it's minimalist state.The new ones are caricatures of themselves IMVHO.

Be interesting to see where they go from here
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Who is both a bit Frank Stephenson-like and available?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Porsche Mission E Concept, one of my current faves:
Design Story: Porsche Mission E Concept ? Form Trends

 

This is a very old video from 1983 ( ) demonstrating the sketching techniques at that time. Ore computer era, using markers, pencils, chalks, etc.
For those interested in the historical nature or those interested in understanding the 'old' analog sketching process. Some of my still very close friends are shown demonstrating their skills.
The old VHS video suffers from a quality point of view, but the techniques are still there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZkgemj-F_4

Published on May 4, 2016
Rare treat! Found an old VHS video tape given to me by an industrial design school classmate long ago back in college in the early 1990s showing GM car designers demonstrating traditional sketch rendering techniques including GM Design Chief Ed Welburn who's retiring this year (2016). Perfect timing! Guessing video is from early 1980s, maybe 1983? (based on Ed Welburn saying he was at GM for 11 years in the video and now retiring after 44 years in 2016). Enjoy!

 

Disneyland's original designer get's a documentary film made about his career:
There's a New Film About Disneyland's Original Car Designer - Los Angeles Magazine

 

I love it as well. Its a perfect modern day 928

 

Love this car. Tesla who?

Awesome. Still prefer the traditional techniques over the heavy handed PS renders we see now.

 

Frank Stephenson.

Since the P1's design hasn't done much other than using tracing paper.

 

Interview with Mark Trostle Chief Designer SRT Studio.
A real car junkie!
https://www.facebook.com/carchronicles/videos/1178054298882628/