I applaud that you were willing to admit this. Like Leno says, all guys think they are good at sex and driving. Women grumble about sex performance all the time, so its a breath of fresh air reading your admission on the lack of your (and Joe's) driving skills. I hear they have these driving school thingies to help guys in your situation. Bravo!!
I guess you can dere-lick my balls cap-E-tan. I sell stuff because better stuff comes along. The cars I had were from VERY different eras. THAT was the point. I don't know you either, so don't presume. Many people here know me, validation implies IGAF. The car "should" appeal. It doesn't. The same way a wimpy little 718 or whatever doesn't, or a TTS (stunning that such a lousy suspension is related to any GT3). I'm not a sycophant for Porsche, Ferrari, or whatever. Pretty funny, many Porsche boards always attack people that don't fawn all over the latest "packaging" from them. My "lack of recognition", and my "assertion that I'm a 'driver'" is typical straw man. I listened to local F-car group do the same at breakfast meet, and P-car people did same thing about something else. Like a bunch of 3rd grade girls having a handbag fight. Sorry some of you can't tolerate people that look at actual value, and write checks based on that. What is your experience? Where's your home track? Don't tell me you're not an ambi-turner Couple corners of Rennlist have hard core track monkeys. I can't wade thru the rest of the forum. Some amazing GT3 RS end-USERS over there. Trakcar, Mooty, others were very helpful to me when I came back to Porsche. I realized now why it's so infrequent Thanks Joe for making the GT3 stuff bearable
My driving skills (as they relate to a manual gearbox) are just fine, unlike many I find a Miura easy to drive, piloting an old Countach draws no complaints from me, an F40 is as easy as pie, and I taught my son to drive manual on one of the Prototype 930s. At no point have I admitted to a lack of anything, driving skills or otherwise , so whilst I get that you are trying to change the focus by misrepresentation of Sfumato's sarcasm, the fact is, this thread is about the R, and all my comments have been about the R. Let's keep it on-topic Here are the 3 main points I've asserted about the R http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144790446-post43.html and clearly, I'm not alone in the way I feel!
I agree Joe with the bastardization of the old glory models, but Ferrari is quite guilty of this too. If however the 911R is just a parts bin special with cheesy stickers why would Andreas Preuniger buy one for himself? There are lots of pictures circulating now of his PTS green. I think this is a special car. Too bad its unobtainable. Jim
totally hear you man - bygone's brother! all a matter of perspective i suppose... as is everything, right? not sure how it's relevant (again) to the greater discussion, but since you seem to like sidetracking the points in the tread, the home track(s) on the east coast amigo. road atlanta, mid-ohio, VIR, etc - started honda challenge, moved into E36's. driven multiple porsche cup cars on track many times, as well as GT3's, RS's, many many an F-car etc, more seat time than i care to mention. but again - it's not about a pissing contest, we could get sucked into the milieu of that all day long... i'm literally just debating the merits of the R as it is - not trying to turn it into (as you so eloquently put it) "a bunch of girls having a 3rd grade fight". seems you're elevating it to that. you've made it personal, but i've not said anything personally about you (re-read the thread) - i'm just harping on the fact that some supposed "drivers" are taking away from a car that's clearly above most others (in the purity and essence). if you feel somehow inferior - that's your own assertion dude. didn't say one way or the other. just agreed with Shark01's observation that porsche is paying attention to drivers and expounded on that. but hey- sometimes things strike a chord i suppose anyway, again - just pointing out the idiosyncrasies that i find interesting, in relation to supposed "drivers" upset or displeased with the R. and why the R is a greater car than i think most people may think or perceive it is. we've definitely all been stunted with porsche's marketing and selling machine relative to new and special models - but i'll say it again; the R this is not. in all seriousness - bygones man. totally dig the opinion and you've had some kick ass cars. can't fault that. *and i get the buying/selling. i've had many, many cars over the years- no issue there. i'd just hang onto a TT andial like my life depended on it if i owned one...
And another opinion .... Everyone is different and that is good. We are discussing a frivolous luxury item that nobody needs in a world of great suffering. For me a great manual/clutch = fun. Fastest doesn't always = fun. 'Small brakes' rational doesn't fly. Too bad the 991R uses that iconic name. Too bad R is a limited edition/marketing play. 991R Decals are ugly. Too bad all 991's are so big. The R seems to be in great demand, of course I would take one at MSRP. The GT4 and Spyder at sub $100K are a relative bargain. 981 Spyder is the most fun Porsche I have ever owned. Life is short enjoy the journey.
The "personal" was further lines from Zoolander that bjorn used. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRWMGjXuyVo[/ame]
I haven't seen anything past friendly ribbing and joking around. Loved Zoolander.....the sequel though was one of the most horrible things ever put to film.
agreed- think it's more relaxed than maybe being perceived! and yeah, i'm an ambi-turner. most definitely. listen to your friend billy zane over there... he'll tell you what's up.
and correct - pt. 2 left more than a bad taste in the mouth. jesus. we'll just stick with memes and lines from the o.g.
So assuming one has more $$ then sense, whats the current going rate to buy one today? I still want one.
Mid $400k, give or take a few. My dealer paid $200k premium for each 911R allocated to him under "exclusive" with 918 owners. They would like to make some profit too, hence the number above. Car is definitely worth it's MSRP (even when some claim it is a parts bin special 911) but not worth the Speciale or 675 LT money.
I do too. I think a lot of people realize this car is what a modern road (notice I did not say track) car 911 should be. Jim
So true. And not just Ferrari! Besides being honest, my feather-ruffling post was meant to be thought-provoking, and boy has it provoked some thoughts Its all good.
Confirmed October Build for my R, white with green is my choice, there is an article in GT Porsche Magazine ' And so it will remain until you go and drive it. I prefer to judge such cars by results not the means by which they were arrived at. I fear I am unable to adequately do justice to just how much additional driving pleasure is provided by the manual gearbox, but more than any other factor , it transforms the car for the better. With The Manual box it is the most rewarding 911 of the current generation ' Image Unavailable, Please Login
Enjoy in health. I like the green better than the alternatives. Green center wheels like early RS would be fun too. If you're in at Monroney, you're fine for awhile. Curious, are you a good customer of your dealer, or a 918 owner? I sincerely hope you've a reasonable dealer. You're the first person I've run across that has real allocation. Of all the manufacturers using "heritage" as sell point, Ford with the GT, GT350R, and RS are doing a great job. Ford would have far greater halo if they'd build more, no games of the rest. And you see GT's racing and winning. Doubt you'll see a "TdF" racing. Really funny that Ferrari has a factory "Hammann/Gemballa/slap CF and a tune" for profit margins, and "limited editions" of 600 to their best bulk buyers. At least Porsche's primary problem is the ROFR with 918 owners. Greedy dealers are not exclusive to them, at least they're asking for it above table Plus, brokers have to eat, and buy appreciating cars
Real allocation, not a dealer or broker. Just 25 years of buying through the same dealership, there was no 918 program in the Uk like the us customers, so loyalty and long term ownership was the key.
Some thoughts on the 911R... 911R is a very different car from the 911 GT3 RS. The RS is a track weapon and the fastest of its type. The R is a road hooligan focused on maximum raw driving pleasure. Preferring one over the other is more about taste and desired usage, than about which car is better. The 911R's high market value is understandable. First, there are no modern European sports cars of its type - raw, manual gearbox, maximum road driving pleasure oriented. Second, as a car made almost exclusively for 918 owners, demand is very high (the R is very complementary to a 918) and supply is extremely limited - especially to non-918 owners. Supply is only from dealer principals who purchased a 918 for themselves or did sufficient business to be allocated a 911R as well. Civilian non-dealer, 918 owners are not reselling - they cannot flip the car without loosing access to future limited production cars. Given all this, the 200k to 300k markup makes sense. All is not lost for those desiring an R, but cannot get one...With the existence of the R and the RS, the GT3 is left in an unusual position of 2nd best to both. The GT3's positioning will be resolved next year with a manual gearbox option effectively replacing the sold-out R.
