I agree. Schumacher did try to block, naturally, but i doubt crashing into Damon was what he had in mind. Look at some still pictures, and you can see Damon's car was over half the kerbs, over the white lines in fact, trying to squeeze past.
It's not "my" opinion, but the opinion of many observers too. "..... into the final race in Australia. On lap 36 Schumacher hit the guardrail on the outside of the track while leading. Hill attempted to pass, but as Schumacher's car returned to the track there was a collision on the corner causing them both to retire. As a result, Schumacher won a very controversial championship, ..." "1994 Australian GP Schumacher took the lead at the start, with Hill second behind him. The order remained the same until lap 36. Hill was catching Schumacher when the Benetton driver went off the track at the East Terrace corner, hitting a wall with his right side wheels before pulling back onto the track. Hill had rounded the fifth corner of the track when Schumacher pulled across the track ahead of him to the left. At the next corner Hill attempted to pass Schumacher; the two collided when Schumacher turned in. Schumacher was eliminated on the spot. Hill attempted to continue the race and pitted immediately, but retired from the race with irreparable damage to the car's front left suspension wishbone. As neither driver scored, Schumacher took the title."
Damon Hill is a true British gentleman, who preferred win his championship cleanly on the track, rather than on appeal in Place de la Concorde.
How did you say earlier? Whatever floats your boat ..Let me guess: Schumachers three wheel Crash with Coulthard was his fault as well 😉 Gesendet von meinem SM-G800F mit Tapatalk
I was referring to a particular incident that came to mind. The 1994 final GP, and how it was won. That should have been a warning to anyone about the ethics of Herr Schumacher. I do not remember the three-wheel incident, but there are more "pearls" in Schumacher chequered career. The "parking" incident at Rascasse one year for example ? Or how he delicately shoved ex-partner Barichello in the wall during his Mercedes years perhaps? But there were many more ...
I do admit Michael was naughty, especially at Monaco Parking and also at Jerez. At Monaco, i think he just sort of panicked, and did it, hoping it would go unnoticed. If he crashed, it would have been better, but he didn't. At Jerez, he probably didn't see/expect to see JV do a divebomb on his inside. When he did, it was too late, and he just turned in sharply, taking himself out of the race. Both are his faults. But, his chop across the track, and taking Rubens near the wall etc, is pretty normal, and has been done before. Webber did it to to Massa, i think in Fuji a few years ago. Senna did it to Prost, and Michael did it too. What's the big fuss? It's within the rules, as far as i'm concerned . You make it sound like Michael is an amateur, and doesn't know what he's doing.
That is probably your personal opinion and not Damon. No discredit to Damon, or anyone, but he knew better among all of us here.
First of all I do not see where you read in that that the author is saying Schumacher did that on purpose... No question that Schumacher did make mistakes in his long career but the problem is that you call them all deliberate, but neither against Hill nore against Villeneuve it was "on purpose". Schumacher had a problem to admit mistakes and he was banned because he did not simply say that he was surpised by Villeneuve (and because the FIA want to set an example after two Prost/Senna accidents late in the season). But obviously those supporting someone else of this era have to keep telling themselves that Schumachers success was based on "wrong ehtics" and "cheating", otherwise they would have to admit that he was simply better. For some reason those who were overshadowed by him are those tentalising against him (like Hill, Villeneuve or Coulthard) wheras Hakkinen never said a bad word about him because he was more on an eye-level then those mentioned before. And the way Hill did reopen the subject of his crash with Schumacher years later (after Jerez) did not sound gentlemen-like either...but if it fits your image of the "British Gentleman" and the "German Ruthless" then you are welcome...It is just funny that if someone is not ruthless it is called either "weakness" and "not WDC material" or "Gentleman-like", whatever fits at the moment...I would say that the term "gentleman-driver" is long gone since it became as commercial as it is today...
back at yer....'Wrong'! He doesn't deserve world champ status. He's only fast when he's out in front.
Senna was a bully, running people of the track on many occasion, banging wheels, not leaving room when overtaken, etc and even provoking accidents and lying about his responsibility. Unfortunately, his behaviour was not reprimanded and has become the accepted standard in motor racing. I don't recall Prost doing any of that, and the Suzuka incident was provoked by Senna with Prost deciding he wouldn't be intimidated this time. Prost refused to yield, and the cars made contact; Senna thought he would get away with it, ignoring the rules. Prost was one if the cleanest drivers there was. I have never heard another driver complaining about his track behaviour. On fact, Prost is probably the most under-estimated WDC.[/quote] Agree on all of that....
Guy races for 20 years and you can point out a few incidents of ruthless driving, oh the humanity. Looks like you Brits still haven't gotten over MS kicking English teams/drivers asses all over the world for 20 years! Except he didn't go into the wall. If MSC wanted him in the wall he would have been in the wall. Just get over it, MSC is the GOAT, no need to still be *****ing about it long after he is retired and severely injured. Time to move on ole chap
It sometime takes just one incident for an individual to ruin his character. Nationality has nothing to do with it. Yes, most drivers lift off to avoid an accident when confronted with a bullying tactic on the track: self-preservation.
I cannot believe that anyone would be so blind to Damon hill's attacks on schumi during those years with his amateurish driving of a car that was much faster than anything else, yet the master, the GOAT, schumi, managed to pinch championships against. I remember an incident where hill simply couldn't have bothered to brake into a corner, and managed to spear through the side of schumis car coming from so far back the turn started out of camera shot from the frame in which we can see Michael, 50 yards around the corner. Both ended up in the gravel that day because hill can't drive. Schumi was hard, but fair....... He expected respect, and gave it where due. Yes, a couple times he pushed the envelope of trying to stay in a race he shouldn't have been in. However, comparing his work ethic and standards to that fool Elton is disgusting and disrespectful to Michael. Elton is simply a dirty driver, he pushes the rules to the extreme, moans and whines when he gets caught (even a proven liar of course too, lying to stewards), playing the race card when it suits, and whenever he wins, it was all him, while if he doesn't, it's all Nico/merc/stewards/back markers/weather/boyfriend had headache/time of the month/mechanics don't love him/team forgot something
There is zero question from anyone, including Schumacher himself, that his collision with Villeneuve in Jerez was deliberate. In his retirement period after Ferrari, Schumacher admitted on several occasions when being asked if he had any regrets or would do anything differently, that he regretted the Jerez incident and would do Jerez differently. It is blatantly obvious that Schumacher was surprised by Villeneuve's attempt to pass initially - then he deliberately turned into Villeneuve - on purpose. I can't believe anyone still has red blinders on, 19 years later! It was no mistake. Neither was Rascasse parking incident in Monaco 2006. Agreed, and even giving benefit of the doubt to Adelaide 1994, Schumacher had two. James Allen wrote a decent biography of Schumacher in 2008 after his first retirement, https://www.amazon.ca/Michael-Schumacher-James-Allen/dp/0755316509/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469547280&sr=8-1&keywords=james+allen+schumacher . "Edge of Greatness" referred to those tarnishing incidents in an otherwise brilliant career. Ryan instructed Hamilton to lie about the overtake under yellow. That's why Ryan got sanctioned and then released by McLaren. Pretty pathetic trying to blame Hamilton for Ryan's departure - again, blatant Hamilton hatred blinding someone so much that they make downright ridiculous claims. It's fine to be a tifosi, or loyal fans of a driver or team, but taking that to the extreme where the obvious facts are deliberately ignored just destroys credibility of the extreme fan.
One does not need red blinders to question your theory... You say that in between opening the steering because of being surprised by Villeneuve and putting the steering to full lock while driving towards the gravel Schumacher decided to deliberately crash into Villeneuve??? I would say that this split second between the two steering directions was hardly enough to think "oh ****" but you are like "well....I am leading in points in the WDC in the current moment...what if I crash into Villeneuve now? Even when we are both out I would become WDC if I get away with it...Sounds like a plan, I think I should do so..." No way that in between those two steering impulses there was anything other than affect. And if he would have thought about taking out Villeneuve on purpose earlier, why did he not just steer to the right a second earlier having Villeneuve crashing into his back ruining his front wing and front suspension rather than waiting to have him in front driving into his sidepod??? Yes, Schumacher repeatingly said that he would DEAL different with what happened in that corner...Instead of telling drivel about Villeneuve not making the corner because he was not able to admit it was his mistake he would be more honest about being surprised by Villeneuve. And Schumacher was disqualified exactly because of that: because he was unreasonable/undiscerning about what happened...and because FIA wanted to put up an example that after two Prost/Senna incidents they would not allow any more WDC decided by crash. Unlike you said Schumacher never said he did it on purpose...And Rascasse is certainly a compleately different story as I would agree that this was not just a mistake...But Schumacher was not the first nore the last who tried something like that... Before you misunderstand: I do not say that Schumacher was a saint, but it is ridiculous that everything that happened is said to be on purpose and unsportive. Obviously those "not liking" him have to make up a story about his character and track behaviour as there is hardly any argument against his abilities. As I said earlier: it is no surprise that all those jump on the same bandwagon who are showed up by him (Hill, Villeneuve, Barrichello, Coulthard)...and certainly their fans. For some reason I do not remember Hakkinen ever talking bad about him, because he was respected as even...
Oh, the humanity! Honestly, MSC haters should feel blessed that he turned in on Jacques, otherwise Villeneuve would have missed the corner and been in the gravel and Schumi would have 8 WDC in the bag and they would be even more bitter than they already are. For the record, his 1997 season is a top 5 season ever driven by anyone in the history of the sport. Why are you and Gordo hell-bent about talking MSC in a thread about Nico's contract? People still can't let stuff go like Adelaide and Jerez, even 20 years later. It's sad. You and GordonC (who has made a habit out of lambasting MSC on this site every chance he gets) should move on. No amount of complaining and over analyzing the situation will change the fact that MSC is the GOAT and holder of every major F1 record. Meanwhile, even after he has been long retired and even gravely injured, message board nobodies continue to try and denigrate his massive accomplishments. Entertaining stuff. Sorry, he was a tough driver, tough ****.
Whilst we're veering just slightly off topic, if you go through James Allen's TV commentary in Schuey's 2003/4 years he was just as fed up as the non tifosi re his dominance - comments like "lucky lucky Schumacher" on air springs to mind. His book's a real good read though. Re Schuey and Rubens, I don't think he did anything wrong - guess that's down to being a fan which is why we follow drivers. Yes, Hill is a true gentleman - have been lucky enough to bump into him in the 90's a couple of times- and granted that he was very quick but my own opinion is that Senna's tradegy had a major impact on him. Just my opinion. The latter part of this thread makes us miss Ian's input. Best, Sammy
Me? Well, aside from acknowledging MS' brilliant career in the very post you're complaining about, there were at least 20 posts about Schumacher in this thread before mine. I am able to acknowledge his flaws along with his brilliance. Same for Senna, Prost, Stewart, Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton - all brilliant, all imperfect. I don't believe I'm alone here in considering Schumacher to be one of the all time greats, but not the all time greatest. That's a matter of opinion, unless you believe that only numbers matter. Tell me, do you believe that Hamilton has been the greatest driver in F1 over the past 2.5 seasons? That's what the numbers say. Tough *** that everybody doesn't share your opinion. Toughen up and live with it! I am not concerned in the slightest that you don't share my opinion. I am still happy to participate in a discussion respectfully without having to hate you or your preferred drivers.
Yeah I do. Pains me to admit it as I'm not a fan of his, but it would be hard to argue otherwise. We can argue until the cows come home about best ever, and it's all opinion, but the records are in stone. I just think it's funny that people are still going on and on about anything Schumacher did two decades ago. Usually they focus on the negatives, which is bizarre. You have a 20 year career at the top and there will be blips on the radar, means little when discussing the legacy of a driver that good.
Wow, OK! Think you can get P. Singhof or daytona355 to agree? I don't find that unusual - for example, Senna discussions still draw controversy about the Prost collisions and more, despite his amazing record. Part and parcel of our flawed heros!
Smart move. This driver lineup wins them championships and creates excitement in F1. Makes Wolff earn his check also and have something to do other than stand around in a headset.
Agree on what? That Hamilton/Mercedes is the best combination in the last 2.5 seasons? Never said any different, question is only how much of it is Hamilton and how much is Mercedes? Same question before with Vettel/RB and most likely everyone has a different opinion on the percentage...At the end one can not seperate them as it is a team sport although Hamilton likes to present himself as a solist fighting against everyone else, be it other drivers, stewards or even his team with wrong strategy and incapable mechanics. If you think that I hate Hamilton or do not rate him among the best at the moment you are very wrong but I doubt that he is the best ever or miles ahead of the other current drivers even if he wins a third WDC in a row. Remember: he only has to beat a single person in the grid, his team mate as the rest is done by his car.
Which numbers? Does that include; horse power ? torque figures ? money spend ? people employed ? No. of months in preparation, research and development ?
No, the same numbers that say Schumacher is the GOAT - race wins, titles, points (in contemporary scoring scheme). If you use those numbers to call Schumacher GOAT, then all the other factors (team, testing, strategy, brilliant technical director, designer, money, people) are as irrelevant to Hamilton over the past 2.5 seasons as they were to Schumacher's 7 titles. By the Schumacher GOAT standard (points and titles uber alles), Hamilton is the GOA2.5. It doesn't matter what Alonso, Vettel, or anyone else is doing - they're not as great drivers. HA! Did your heads just explode?
