Is Hamilton one of the GOAT F1 drivers?

Unfortunately, when he was with Nico in the same car, he didn't perform. So its hard to tell what he might've done. He could've lost his speed with age, it does happen.

 

Well he obviously did, but he was still very fast. I maintain that he was faster overall than Rosberg in 2012. Pole at Monaco, etc. Plus had he been in a WDC capable car the motivation would have been huge.

 

Really? Stewart hasn't got 1/10th of Gilles fame or fans!! The only reason Ayrton is more known then Gilles it's because he lived at a time whem F.1 had a lot more exposure.
Gilles remais the most beloved and famous Ferrari driver of all times, ahead of lauda, Shumi, Ascari, etc, etc...

 

I sincerely hope no one will be offended by this, but any real f.1 fan, with a decent knowledge of it's history, and that as seen races from the early 80s onwards KNOWS Hamilton is very far from being a G.O.A.T.......but as others have said..he definitly looks like a goat

 

Those paying attention will note he beat Alonso (the best driver at the time and 2x WDC) as a rookie in the very same car and only had the championship stolen from him at the end of the season.
And by stolen I mean stolen.

He is now waxing Rosberg (of whom I am and was a fan long before he came to the forefront) who in turn was AT LEAST as competitive as a certain Michael Schumacher in the same car.

Why this is even up for debate is puzzling.

 

Beaten..stolen...??? And you wonder why people have different opinions???

 

Point is, if you ask any modern day F1 fan who Gilles is, or who francois was, hell even Jochen Rindt most of them will say "who?" They are fly by night Lewis fans who will disappear when he leaves. Then we will have fly by night Max fans.

You people and your Hamilton love is amazing. Of course he's talented. He didn't beat Alonso. Same wins, Same points. He had 1 more second place finish so he qualified as 2nd.

However, when I apply the same logic to Hamilton getting beat by Jenson Button, including a 2nd place finishing car to Lewis' 5th, you can't see that?

 

Nope. He's just in one of the greatest cars of all time.

 

Lol. Hamilton owns the biggest chokejob in F1 history. The Shanghai pitlane incident cost him the championship. Too bad for him, I'm sure you're alluding to some tin foil hat theory here about Mosley not letting Mclaren win but there isn't a shred of proof. Hamilton blew it.

Waxing? Do you know what that means? He is not "waxing" Rosberg. Waxing would be what Schumacher did to Barrichello. Also, MS was old, well past his prime, had suffered a major motorcycle accident and had been out of the car for 3 years when Rosberg beat him. Not representative at all of what he would have done in his prime against Hamilton, so there are no conclusions to be drawn from that.

Hamilton is a top 10 greatest driver ever.

 

Look at how many stats show Rosberg in now the Top 10 and top 5 of certain things. Consecutive wins, poles, podiums in a season, etc. That makes him one of the greats as well?

 

Hamilton is the best of his era. It helps he is in the best car. Just as it helped many others who people argue is the best. There are only a few who excelled in a car that was inferior to the best car of the day. Alonso in the Renault, Schumacher in the Benetton, Senna in the 93 McLaren. The car, and the designer are the force behind drivers greatness with all the parity restrictions. What would you bet the house on, Pascal Wehrlein in the Merecedes or Lewis Hamilton in the Manor?

 

Not that I say he is not but how can one rate Hamilton or Vettel in an era that is more about the car than ever before? When you look at the results you have 2 Mercedes in front of 2 RB and 2 Ferrari in most of the races/qualifyings (or 2 Ferrari in front of 2 RB). Certainly they are no monkeys (like Lauda once said) but I do not think they can make so much difference. As mentioned a few weeks ago that the safety car start in Silverstone even took away the last challenge where the drivers can proof their abilities in the rain.

Again: maybe Hamilton and Vettel are in the top ten, maybe not...How can one say for sure? Senna, Schumacher, Fangio or Clark stood out in their generation, neither Hamilton or Vettel does that much. They are among the best of their era but not miles ahead like the ones menioned above...

 

Vettel walked away in defeat from the challenge of Ricciardo within a team which we all know had an overwhelming bias for Vettel. He will never be a great unless he can pull a Schumacher at Ferrari.

Hamilton's greatest opposition for the last 2 titles has been Rosberg. Rosberg who? Exactly. He will never be a great until he can win a title against a great opponent like those before him, Schumie, Senna, Prost etc

Parade laps are boring. Boring things and boring people will never be remembered. To be a GOAT you need to be memorable.

Hamilton is not memorable, at least not to this non-brit

 

I'd bet the house on ME in the Mercedes against any of the rest in their current cars, except Nico! The merc is the difference, not that dopey excuse for a driver that sits in car 44

 

+1 on a clear sunny day, given the reliability involved, sans a mistake of gross consequence, the cars matter more than the driver. Just ask FA. In the Ferrari he was able to drive it and gain more from the package than others, and he didnt win a title.

LH couldnt dominate or win enough against Button to say he was the master in the team. He struggled many times in a very much less than perfect car Mclaren had at the time when he was paired with Button.

I dont worship race car drivers ever. Why would you at all LOL.

 

The driver is important in getting the most out of the car. In an F1 documentary from several years ago, John Surtees was asked about Nigel Mansell. He said he was the better driver in the best car, which is why he won the title. This is my view of Hamilton. He is the better driver in the best car. Which is why he will win titles year after year until some team/driver catch up. Does this make him an all time great? I don't think so. His numbers will say he is, but greatness is about more than numbers.

 

Your stats are interesting, but head to head against Button at McLaren he was not so great

Wins Hamilton 10-8
Podiums Button 25-22
Points finishes Button 47-45
Total points Button 672-657
Best championship finish Button 2nd

Very equal in equal cars.

 

Vettel has looked completely pedestrian since 2013. I don't hold him in the same light that I used to. Quite frankly, this generation of drivers is extremely overrated.

 

Additional inputs....I don't think LH significantly outperformed either of the WDC teammates. The 2011 crash-a-thon with Massa certainly didn't help Hamilton's results:

Qualifying
Faster qualifying time: Hamilton 44 / Button 14
Poles: Hamilton 9 / Button 1
Front rows: Hamilton: 23 / Button 9

Races
Wins: Hamilton 10 / Button 8
Podiums: Hamilton 22 / Button 25
Points finishes: Hamilton 45 / Button 47
DNFs: Hamilton 13 / Button 8
Best race result (inc DNFs): Hamilton 32 / Button 26
Ahead in two-car finish: Hamilton 24 / Button 13

Championship
Overall points: Hamilton 657 / Button 672
Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1
Highest championship placing: Hamilton 4th (2010, 2012) / Button 2nd (2011)

 

Top ten maybe. Top fifteen, probably. GOAT? No freaking way. He's not even the best on the grid right now.

 

He's a GOAT, when it comes to choice of sunglasses and jewelry...

 

i don't know about worship, but it's a pretty amazing thing to see what a great driver can do with an everyday car. they have immense skill beyond words.

 

I have no particular love for Hamilton.
I just recognize greatness when it presents itself.
So did Dennis who has seen them all.
Another dolt ?

I just love it when people compare stats and points earned when it comes to drivers.
They miss the forest for the trees.

Were you actually paying attention to what was going on in '07 ?
My God the greatest performance by a rookie EVER.

 

The title of the topic is ONE of the GOAT F1 drivers.
Not THE.
Settle down.
He is easily one of the best on the grid right now.
Just who is better ?

 

One of Michael's great skills was negotiating who his #2 driver was.

He knew perfectly well his greatest competition was in car #2.

Hamilton is not nearly so clever nor manipulating.
Frankly I don't think he cares.
Bring it.

Please remember Nico was at least MS's equal in the same car. (Who did Mercedes choose when push came to shove ?)
Hami is currently waxing Nico.