Is Hamilton one of the GOAT F1 drivers?

Certainly this is the only doubt that is over Michaels Career, that he was "robbed" of the opportunity to really measure with the top dog in a good car. In every sport part of the fascination it to see the upcoming stars change the power against the established ones. Michael never had this opportunity and when looking at his reaction after equal the record of race victories of Senna one could see how much it would have meant to him.

As for 1994: don´t forget that the FIA took away 3 races of Schumacher (because of the black flag) to make the championship more interesting. Otherwise Hill would have been not even near Schumacher in points...I am not so certain that Senna would have been able to catch up after the bad start in the season. But this remains a question nobody will ever be able to answer...It is always sad to loose a driver but in this case I think we lost an epic battle over a few seasons between two really great drivers.

 

^^^ I agree with most of what Daytona355 says. Alonso is probably the closest we have today to a GOAT that got away. The one who somehow had all the right ingredients as a racer, but somehow managed to make some poor team choices at critical points in his career and ended up stalling on 2 WDCs.

Re Ham - whether we like it or not, if he ends up with 4 or more WDCs, he will have earned the right to be on the GOAT candidate list, but he isn't the number 1 GOAT, and in my view, never can be because whilst he is a gifted natural racer, he lacks the intelligence required.

Perhaps Max can turn some of his amazing promise into becoming a GOAT candidate?

 

It wasn't me he was calling a troll actually, I just noticed that the word was being bandied around a lot, I hadn't posted in two or three pages at that point

 

+1

 

No he want..he can win 6 titles..he wont be a top 10 driver in my book and i'm sure in most f1 fans....so far he hasn't proved he is that good....i don't see anyone considering Massa as a great...and he was better than Hamilton in similar cars...

 

In my humble opinion, Massa cannot hold a candle to Hamilton, and it simply undermines credibility to suggest that he is comparable. I know you have strong views on Ham, and that's fine, but he has 3 WDCs and is likely to add at least another taking his score to 4 or more and putting him into a very small community of F1 drivers that have achieved similar success. Massa will never be a WDC and will be forgotten. Those are the facts as they will recorded in the history books.

 

I don't think you can blame Spain on Rosberg; Hamilton moved minutely earlier, impossible to spot that. Hamilton could've backed off a lot earlier but never did. 60/40, with Hamilton more to blame IMO. He was the one doing the overtaking, he has the full view, he is the one that can brake. Rosberg made his one move and as a racing driver, Hamilton should comprehend that.

Austria was Rosberg's fault, no doubt about it. He should've squeezed at the end, not whatever he was doing.

IMO his move in Germany was legitimate (and this is coming from a big Verstappen fan). Stewards where all over that weekend making the dumbest decisions constantly.

IF Rosberg wins the title, he has beaten a guy who is currently being discussed if he is a GOAT or not. Pretty much established that he is without doubt better than ''the average'' driver (for reference, Bottas/Hulkenberg etc, who are in turn better than the ''****'' drivers such as Palmer and Haryanto).

Surely that increases his status?

What does that do to Lewis' status? Increase or decrease? He then has either a) beaten a world champion 3x beforehand in the same team or b) the beating was marginal and that will open another huge discussion.


For me, I'm not convinced in Hamilton being a GOAT. Everyone said he would lynch Button. Nothing of the sort happened. Everyone said he would lynch Rosberg, but the two are very much equal the difference is marginal.

When you think of a GOAT, you think Senna, Schumacher, Gilles, Fangio....

FWIW, my other hero, Vettel, hasn't reached GOAT either. But I rate him above Hamilton due to his accomplishments against not only teammates and other drivers, but of his racing intelligence. Even small things like the overtaking in the pitlane, he knew it was allowed where he did it (deep in the rule book).

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNikdFAliIU[/ame]

 

At least Vettel had to sweat for some of his titles.

I'm not saying Ham isn't fast or a top driver, but an all timer he ain't.

 

My opinion as well...

 

Yep. The problem is that now if there is a controversial move, the stewards invariably come on Hamilton's side as if he was a god.
Rosberg tried a few times to make his point, but it was half-hearted. He was reprimanded by the officials, slatted by the media, and we don't know what went behind closed doors at MB. Rosberg is a nice guy, but not aggressive enough with LH, IMO.

So, I think Hamilton should better be "dealt with" on the track by an outsider, rather than a team mate. The problem is that not many cars can challenge a Mercedes on the track at the moment!
MB clearly made Hamilton Number One in the team (probably reflected by his pay check as well).

 

+1

As a team mate, Rosberg is no Alain Prost

 

Alain Prost, now you are talking !!!!!

A great driver, fast, intelligent, composed, methodical, skilled, cunning, etc...

I don't even know if Prost considered himself the greatest among his peers, but he was focused in beating them by superior preparation and tactics.

If he wasn't the fastest in a race, he made sure to be the first to inherit the lead if a rival was to commit a mistake. A tactician without equal, in my book.

To come back to the title of this thread The Greatest Of All Time, I don't think there is such a driver. You just cannot compare drivers from different eras, different formula, different rules, etc...

At best, you can tell who's the most successful in a particular era, in a decade (that is objective), but GREATNESS is not measured by the number of wins or titles, IMO, because it is essentially subjective.

 

This

Coulda-Woulda-Shouldas are not recorded in the stats.

 

I'll let you know the day he retires.

If you are a true F1 fan, meaning the world does not revolve around only the drivers and/or teams you follow, and you can step back and take an objective look at the entire field, and you come out and say that Lewis is average, or not close to being great, etc, etc, then you just simply do not know what you are talking about. Lewis is a great driver, he is extremely talented, more so than most of the field, and if you cannot recognize that, as a supporter or non-supporter, then you do not know what you are talking about or you are a hater.

 

Funny, it's been a while that it's been said I've not got an objective look at the field.

 

Hamilton is the most successful driver AT THE MOMENT.

That doesn't make him a great driver.

The circumstances of his success have to be taken into consideration, not just the bare stats.

He is driving the fastest car, and he isn't challenged as he could be by his team mate.

Almost everybody agrees on these points.

 

Also IMO Massa is as good as hamilton..in fact i believe he was better before his accident...he was better in 2008 and again in 2009 by far...when felipe had his accident he was 4th with 22 points, only behind the red bulls and the Brawns who were in another league...Hamilton had 9.....after that it's obvious he lost some edge..yet, over the enxt years and untill The merc became the dominat force, we often saw them fighting in similar competitive cars...and usualy trhe result was Hamilton crashing against massa or pushing him out of the track.....till this day he has still not showed me the same level of talent Felipe somethimes did..i remenber for example the start at the Hungarian g.p 2008...the batle with Kubica in the rain...the recovery in canada 2008...

 

Keke said Prost was the best he raced against.....he said he was unable to drive the Mclaren the way Prost did...this coming from a guy who could drive anything fast means a lot....

 

+1

 

Yep, spot on.

 

+1

 

+2

 

Now you are talking...he is more talented than MOST of the field but he is not miles ahead of ALL of the field making him the outstanding driver of his generation qualifying him for a GOAT...That sounds about much more correct than all the things you said above about beating every single other in every single race....

 

If you think any f1 driver is miles ahead of the rest you're wrong. the difference between greatness and average is incredibly small.

You guys crack me up. When Nico is ahead in the championship it's all about how underrated nico is. When lewis is ahead it's all about how lewis' teammate isn't challenging him enough.

 

It was not me saying he would beat every other driver in the same car at every occasion...I think none of them stands out as much as Senna, Schumacher or Fangio did.