Team managers put only the best people in their cars. When Hamilton went to MB, obviously they had high expectations of him, otherwise they wouldn't have given him the car that turned out to be the dominant force. Would they have given that seat to e.g. Sutil or some other also-ran? Unlikely. Yes you need the best car to win the title but only the best drivers get into the best cars in the first place (talking here about #1 drivers, not the perennial water carriers). As for the comparison with Vettel: Correct, Seb did the same thing. If not even better by winning in a "Minardi", which earned him the seat in the best car of that time. Same story. As for praising Vettel (I realize your comment wasn't directed at me): Vettel is one of my heroes. Hamilton is not but I have a hard time when people are belittling his achievements. The guy is top notch. Not my kind of guy, but I won't deny his super talent. And as I said before: Vettel is one of the GOATs as well. He didn't luck into his 4 WDCs either. PS: All these discussions remind me of what happened before Alonso joined Ferrari: Lots o f people stating he only won his 2 WDCs through cheating and because the Renault was the best car. I always defended him and was just waiting for the tide to turn once he would be driving for Ferrari and sure enough now many people on here look at him as one of the best (me included, but I always thought so). Then a similar thing happened with Seb whom many took not serious with his 4 WDCs here and then he joined Ferrari and now he is all cool. I'd bet the tide against Lewis would change on here to a large degree if he'd become a Ferrari driver (not that I want that to see).
Yes, and I did never say that Hamilton is not a good driver...But there are at least 5 drivers at the moment (Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Ricciardo and maybe Verstappen) you can put in that car with the same result. I do not see much in between them, certainly less than there is in between their cars. But for me a GOAT must stand out of his generartion like Fangio, Clark, Senna or Schumacher did and none of the 5 mentioned above does at the moment. So I do not rate any of them as a GOAT! Fact is that no supporter of any other driver than Hamilton is as blinkered when it comes to their idol like those constantly praising him over here. If there is something I hate then it is this unreasonable preaching, not the driver himself because I actually do not care which driver in the Mercedes wins, for me it is far more a car-victory rather than a drivers victory anyway.
You have it bass ackwards. He received sponsorship because of his successful career. The only driver in my memory that received sponsorship THEN had to produce was Danica and we all know how that turned out. I can see Ron Dennis having a discussion with the rest of the team; "Yeah we're bringing this new kid on at $200K a year but let's just for grins all give him priority over our multi million dollar two time world champion because... well... just because. What do you all say ? " Time for a new edition.
You know what I said before, if you aren't a hater, then you don't know what you are talking about. Or, you must not think there are any great drivers in F1 right now. And for the record, I am not a fan of any particular driver or team. I am a fan of good racing. The last driver I was a fan of was Senna. I guess Senna was not a great driver to you either, since he was in the best car, and his team-mate won his share of races, and even a WDC against him (something that I doubt Nico will ever do). This same situation can probably be applied to so many drivers from the past. I would not call anyone who is racing currently a GOAT (with the exception of Valentino Rossi, who is not "a" GOAT, but "THE GOAT"). As far as whom I think is great right now, and may somewhere down the road be talked about as a GOAT, is Lewis, Seb, and Alonso. Out of those 3, I would pick Lewis to best challenge Schumey's WDC record, or at least end up with the most decorated career once he calls it a day. Just under the great level is Max (rapidly rising), Jenson (on his way down), Kimi (neutral), Ricciardo (nuetral), and Bottas (on his way up).
McLaren sponsoring a kid racing kart was a long shot; at that time Hamilton hadn't won any championship. Do I need to spell you why Dennis put money on Hamilton? It's called D.I.V.E.R.S.I.T.Y , and there is a agenda behind that. There are plenty of teenagers receiving sponsorship in motor racing, and not all of them succeed in climbing the ladder either. There are plenty of outstanding talents in the lower echelons of motorsport, and not many make it to F1, or win a GP, even less a title. As soon as Ron Dennis saw that Hamilton could hold his own in F1, he set to dispense with Alonso's services, according to insiders, by undermining him in the team. The Spaniard got fed up and left, that's what Dennis hoped for. Hamilton was Dennis' baby; Alonso was chosen by the sponsors. Not different this time: it's Honda that insisted in having Alonso.
Did you actually read my posts before you tell me that I do not know what I am talking about? I said none of those mentioned today stands out so none of them can be considered as a GOAT as standing out of his generation is in my opinion requirement for being named GOAT. Seriously, please read my posts before you answer in that way!
Deeply disrespectful. Just because he says that Hamilton isn't a GOAT/best in the current field, he doesn't know anything about F1? Laughable.
Or he brings his own protégée into the team because he thinks he could learn a thing from the 2x WDC. Once he sees that there is not much difference between them and that Alonso is a little bit less easy to handle than expected he supports Lewis and says "Told you so...My cars are that great that a 200K driver could become WDC in it and I am the one who found him...". That sounds much more like Ron than what you have said...I can´t imagine that with all the stories behind closed doors between Alonso and the team there was no preference for the model pupil... Nevertheless his first season (apart from a few rookie mistakes costing him the WDC)was Lewis best season, much more impressive than 2008, another argument that titles and statistics do not tell the full story.
Exactly !! There hasn't been any great driver for a long time. Successful ones, yes; great no. I suggest there won't be any more great drivers.
+1 Dennis wanted to score some points. Alonso fell victim of a particular agenda at McLaren. In 2007, Hamilton was a revelation in his rookie year.
+1, and I thought calling people haters was against the rules, its in virtually every post from some Elton fans
Ron wanted to upset the applecart, and had on his hands the first black F1 driver who could be a contender, a car that, although achieved through spying rather than engineering, was at the front of the field, and very early on, his paternal displays of affection for Elton caused Alonso to feel detached and obviously offended. Once the cracks started to show, Ron gave Elton the rope to hang himself, and so began the fun of pitstop hold ups and tricks, culminating in Alonso ensuring that MacLaren wouldn't win the championship on the track, and going to court to help make sure they paid the price for disrespecting his talent and him personally over the season. Elton is a good driver, no doubt, but he isn't anything special, as others have said. He doesn't have the application nor intelligence to be a great, his answer is always crash into them, not trick them into mistakes or outthink them on strategy....... Schumi or Senna with their cunning would murder him in their prime
So who are the GOAT candidates in today's grid? Last year, there was a reasonably strong view that the best drivers on the grid were Vettel, Alonso and Ham. That hasn't changed. Should Max be included in that short list given his undoubted promise, or is it too early to call? Ricci showed promise last year, but Max has clearly shown him up this year, so he's out of GOAT contention in my view.
Out of the current drivers, the GOAT candidates are Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton. IMO Hamilton has been beaten or has barely beaten his teammates too many times (also in final standings of the season) to really be one. An unbeatable car really doesn't help that view IMO, he's only fighting one car in the field, a phenomenon that rarely happens, and unheard of 3 seasons in a row. Alonso IMO definitely needs a nomination. 2007 was deeply in Hamiltons' favour team wise (Hamilton has had Mclaren support for over 10 years, British, and value wise would bring a lot more money in than Alonso could at that time, potential title in first year, bla bla bla), and practically any support for him was dropped at Hungary when he revealed he'd be going to the FIA with proof regarding the spy-gate. His dominance over other team mates is quite telling. I have a great love for Vettel, his win in a barely midfield car and subsequent performances with the same car in the wet are pretty damn telling of his massive talent. The Red Bull was not always the fastest car, but he was fastest with it. A small caveat was that he was beaten by Ricciardo in 2014, but to be fair his car rarely worked in the first half of the season, and already committed to Ferrari by then, which automatically means less support from the team. Max has a long way to go to be a GOAT, but his driving is ever improving and, race pace at least, is bettering Ricciardo (who is obviously no slouch) plenty of times. 1 win does not a GOAT make, but he's only 18. In 10 years, lets see how many wins he's got. It's scary to think he's a long way of being in his prime still.
Most times Max has beat Ricci was the teams fault..not Ricci's...to me and afte rwhat i saw in 2014 when he had the chance, Daniel is better then Hamilton....Seb to me is also clearly a better driver then Elton...Alonso is to me overrated.
Sorry buddy but you're wrong. Spain - Max was on the slower strategy and had to cover of Kimi, it was only in the final laps they realized that the tires would hold together. Max and Kimi both said the final laps where like driving on ice... Monaco - Ricci had it together all weekend, Max did not. Looked to be going well for max until he binned it again. Massive balls up by the team for Ricci cost him a win Canada - Race pace Max was much faster, kept tires together...Ricci went through tires and tried alternative strategy but failed to close in on Max. Max on the other hand managed to keep it all together, and on old tires kept behind a Mercedes on newer tires (and ultimately caused the latter to spin!) Baku - Team send Ricci out earlier in the session, meaning Max had traffic in quali which cost him a great deal of time, especially after being blocked by Bottas, had to start 9th. Ricci dropped like a stone during the race from 3rd to 7th and only just managed to finish ahead of Max Austria - rain in quali, IIRC max was first on over the line on a fast drying track. In the race, he passed Ricciardo early on. Once again kept tires together and finished 2nd to Ricci's 5th. Silverstone - Outqualified and outraced Ricciardo, 2nd in the race to Ricci's 4th. Hungary - Ricci faster in quali, balls up pitwise by the team caused Verstappen to be behind Kimi on a long stint and that was that. German - Ricci faster in quali and race The only race where Verstappen finished ahead of Ricciardo and the team could be blamed, was Barcelona, but this was more coincidence than anything. Vettel and Ricciardo where both on the strategy that was deemed fastest (Vettel was still in the hunt for a potential title, so obviously they gave him the fastest strategy). Verstappen had to cover the 2 stopping Kimi, it really was a question of extreme tire management.
Not trying to take anything away from your boy Bas (is only fault in my mind was speed over a single lap..and he's improving that) but to me, right now Ricci is still the best man.
This is an excellent comparison. I agree with Kizdan. Of the racing that I currently watch, Valentino Rossi is the only GOAT, and he is THE GOAT.
+1 That's the way I read it myself. At the time, in an interview with a non-sporting magazine, Ron Dennis said he was very proud to have promoted the first black man to F1. I think Elton didn't repay the attention as he should have done. I suspect there is bad blood between them now.
