Is Hamilton one of the GOAT F1 drivers?

I don't disagree but it still takes big time talent to come into a new team and unseat the guy that has won 4 WDCs on the trot, at the peak of his confidence, and had undisputed #1 status

 

Not to take anything away from Ricciardo's accomplishments that season, but Vettel was plagued with a huge amount of issues with the car all season long. It really was a rare saturday or sunday that it had no issues at all. He still finished many races, but mostly with a car that had some issue during the race that hampered full speed. Eventually, when he signed the contract for Ferrari, he would be kept out of the loop with the newest stuff as well, no point taking any know how to Ferrari (standard procedure when teams know a driver will move to another team, especially competing teams...I doubt Ferrari would be very interested in the goings on at Manor for instance).

That said, Ricciardo will and truly proved himself. Very fast, especially on the single lap, very good on the brakes and close quarters racing, and on top of that he's pretty much universally liked by the press/teams/fans, which in the end does help bring extra sponsors in.

 

..Well, after all this i think we can safely say...Elton sucks!!

 

I think Kimi is still struggling as he can't seem to get the car completely to his liking and has a small set-up window whereas his past two teammates, Alonso and Seb appear to be better equipped to drive a car that isn't 100% perfect, but get on with it because that's what's available at the moment. It reminds me of Ronnie Peterson who just got in the car and drove it, not too concerned nor able to give that much feedback compared to Mario who developed the cars.

 

He seems to have got on fine this year.

Difference between him and Vettel was low 0.1xx I believe.

 

What's your definition of fine?? Vettel isn't exactly having a stellar year and he's still under performing compared to him and the previous years he got smoked by Alonso and Vettel, and with Renault the second half of the year Grojean was matching him most of the time.

 

Either Vettel is underperforming or Kimi has stepped up his game and is matching Vettel.

 

Personally, I don't think Vettel is having a very strong year. I also think Kimi has stepped it up a bit.

 

agree..a bit of both...

 

Yup.

I'm actually a bit surprised how close they are in results. Granted some comes courtesy of Kvyat but still. Kimi is certainly not a problem the Scuderia needs to focus on right now.

 

The point is that bike racing is 80% rider and 20% equipment. F1 is exactly the opposite. An F1 driver does not contribute nearly as much to the success of a race as his car. A Moto GP rider makes or breaks his team.

Which goes right back to my statement pages ago that as long as the car is the most important factor, IMHO, there can be no more GOATS in F1.

 

+1

 

The car was always the most important factor. Many WDCs were won that way. Just think about Andretti's unbeatable Lotus. Or the fully-auto Williams Mansell got his title in. Schumacher's 2004 Ferrari was unbeatable too.

The point is that only the best drivers end up in the best cars. That was true back then in the fifties as it is today.

If you want equipment not to be the dominant factor, well then watch a race at your local gokart track. Somehow I don't think that is as much fun.

And the OP is about GOAT within F1. So any comparisons outside of F1 are meaningless anyhow. For that we have the "Other Racing" section on FChat.

 

I remember him appearing at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. There was more Support and Doctor-shirts and -flags than for any F1 driver including local Hamilton and Button. The People went crazy showing his popularity all over the world, not just at home...Impressive goosebumps moment when he stood on the balcony of Goodwood house overlooking a sea of 46-flags...

Gesendet von meinem SM-G800F mit Tapatalk

 

I prefer to do the karting myself, and trust me, it's far more fun that slogging through another boring F1 race.

When you can put any driver on the grid in a car and that cars wins, there is no GOAT. Think whatever you'd like. I'll do the same.

 

Yep, in F1, the car you drive is all important in the result; but in MotoGP, the rider makes the difference.

 

Having done a lot of gokart racing myself I agree it is a lot of fun. As a spectator sport not so much.

You can't put any driver into the best car and expect him to win. If that were true why hasn't Patrese, Barrichello or Webber (just to name a few) become WDCs.

Talent matters today as it did in the past.

 

No, that's not strictly true.

Not only team principals, but the sponsors chose the drivers; this is often ignored.

Based on marketability, they reject many applicants early on. So the guys in the best cars are the fast drivers the sponsors have endorsed, not necessarily the best ones.

 

Heard an interesting interview with Cal Crutchlow where he said that if you put one of the better riders in a factory Honda or Yamaha that they would not beat Rossi, Lorenzo or Marquez, but if you put these 3 in a satellite team they would definitely still be competitive. his premise is that any of these 3 are miles better than anyone else on the grid, including himself.

In F1 you put any of the best drivers into any car but a Mercedes they are not compeitive as we have suffered through since 2014. Sorry, I just don't see a GOAT on the grid in F1 Max Verstappan maybe, it is too early to tell). Just because one has won races and a championship does not make them great, see Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve, good drivers yes, but there were plenty of other drivers that were better that did not have the good fortune to drive a Williams.

Look at Hamilton's numbers before getting into the 2014-2016 Mercedes and he is very good, but not necessarily great. If I were a team manager, I would be trying to figure out how to get Max Verstappen out of the Red Bull contract and into my team. Hamilton is nearer the end of his career; whereas Max is at the very beginning.

 

Agreed.

 

Agree, i remenber Mclaren prefered Tambay over Gilles because they believed he would be a better market asset (he was also a good driver, no doubt)....and recently you find many examples...for example, Félix da Costa had his seat already made and was going to drive for Toro rosso..then, suddenly a Russian g.p comes into the championship and a certain Russian apears with a bag full of money (i believe bernie had something to do with it to)..and guess who got the place?

 

Exactly.

When Brazilian companies,mostly banks, burst into F1, they soon imposed Brazilian drivers. Some of them very good, others not so good.

When French state-owned oil company ELF came into F1, it started promoting plenty of French drivers into F1. Same for SHELL that was heavily involved in sponsorship at one time.

Now 2 Mexicans owe their seats in F1 to Mexican companies imposing them.

There are plenty of examples.

 

Of course marketing and $ considerations come into play when you pick a #2 driver or if you know you won't win the Championship. F-1 is a business after all.

But if you have the best car and look for a #1 driver then talent is the deciding factor

 

But sponsors have already made their selection well before F1 !!

Try to race GP2, GP3, F3 Formula V8 or else without sponsors !!!

 

Exactly. Bringing a bunch of cash with you will get a better driver with less cash bumped.