Is Hamilton one of the GOAT F1 drivers?

Lol you can't throw that pole away. If he cheated on that lap i.e. cut the track or had an illegally fast car, fine. But he got a penalty for whatever happened the race before, that does not make his Monaco lap time any slower.

 

Its hard to read into what Vettel can or can't do. From anyone that has worked with both Schumacher and Vettel, they all say the same...Vettel is the driver that is most ''Schumacher like'' regarding understanding the car, and his dedication to getting the car further up the grid by working together with the team. He wants to know EVERYTHING that there is about the car, and any changes made he wants to understand completely.

+1 regarding LH/ROS

I'm still amazed by his 2003 year. Only 1 win (would've been 2 if his engine didn't expire from that stunning lead he built up), but his consistency (and fightbacks when his car gave up on him during any point at the weekend) kept him in and only lost out to Schumacher by 2 points.

I'm happy he's finally doing better again this year after a couple of dismal seasons. Hopefully he brings even more next year.

 

Schumacher only out qualified 40 year old piquet by an average of a tenth of a second, beaten on points. Fact of the matter is no one will never know quite how good Schumacher is. He was never EVER challenged by a team mate. Contractual number twos his entire career pretty much and a dominant car. He sometimes had challenges from other teams but never from a driver of a similar Ilk. Not until 2005-2006 and alonso got the best of him.

I think Schumacher is a top driver never disagreeing with that. It's those who sit here and try and say hamiltons titles were easy when Schumachers were the easiest of all time.

I've spent a lot of time watching old videos and reading and I think this is a pretty fair assessment

Senna has the most natural talent of all time. Fastest over a single lap but not a great racer

Schumacher and Prost very good race pace and race craft - Schumacher a faster qualifier. Jim Clark both fast, amazing at preserving the car and a good racer - better than he's given credit for.

Hamilton has a lot of natural talent - second only to senna imo and the second fastest over a single lap in f1 history. Great racecrsft but not as good as Schumacher or Prost in that department.

In modern f1 Hamilton would beat Schumacher. Track position is everything and Hamilton has enough race craft to keep Schumacher behind. Hamilton of 2010 would never beat Schumacher over a season but he would now. Wind back to the 90s and Schumacher would beat Hamilton most seasons, but not in today's era if both in their prime

Let's not forget how much time Schumacher spent testing that you cannot do today. Without so much seat time someone like Hamilton with arguably more natural talent gets a slight advantage


Fastest laps are now meaningless in a 4 engine formula. Hamilton turned his car down from lap 3 in Germany

 

Schumacher had never driven that Benetton once and jumps in mid season with zero F1 experience, only to outqualify a 3x WDC 4-1. Clearly you don't understand how difficult that is. So what if it was a tenth of a second? What is Hamilton's qualifying advantage over Rosberg during their time together? A tenth or two at most.

Schumacher only had a dominant car for 3 years out of a 18 year career. Repeating something that is not true will not make it true. Of course we know how good Schumacher is. The proof is in the pudding...and record books.

Already proved why this is BS.

Exactly, you weren't around then. New money.

Senna "not a great racer?" Lol.

Pointless speculation that I doubt many experts would agree with.

Not true at all, the fastest cars/drivers still set the fastest laps.

 

Yes Schumacher was a rookie so it's understandable. Of course he would destroy piquet by an even bigger margin once he got going. My point is piquet was 40. Even from rookie Schumacher I expected better. Hakkinen vs Hamilton on a short track reveals that the former was 2.3 seconds a lap slower than the latter. Granted he was out of f1 a few years but conditioned for a comeback.


I didn't mean that senna is not a great racer. Of course he is. I meant relative to the others. Writing on the commute to work so cut me some slack.

Schumachers car was dominant for more than 3 seasons imo. From memory I haven't seen you say hamiltons titles aren't worth anything so you aren't who I'm at issue with here. Hamiltons titles were harder to obtain than Schumachers Ferrari titles anyone with a shred of objectivity can admit that.

I'm new money because I'm young. Young and willing to learn is sometimes better than those who are old and refuse to look at the current crop of drivers with an open mind.

In my view Hamilton is quicker than Schumacher over 1 lap and I think by the time he is done most experts will agree with me

 

IMO, no.
Almost no competition.
Same for Schumi for 4 of his.

 

Which 4? 2001, 2002 and 2004. What is the other one?

 

IMO history will remember Hamilton fondly. He probably will not have an ultimate win total to get even close to Schumacher, nor will he have the mystique of Senna, but will be considered in the same breath as Prost, Fangio, Villeneuve, or Clark.

When Senna was driving, everyone knew he was the best driver on the grid. This was also the case for much Schumacher's career as well (although not as obvious as with Senna). Hamilton at the very least is one of the top three (Vettel, Alonso, Ham) today and both of the others are exceptional talents and multiple WDC in their own right. Ultimately he might be more successful than either of them in wins and WDC assuming he stays at Mercedes and they remain the overdog.

Historians will look at his early career where he and Alonso were teammates and he was at least as good as Alonso that season, where Fernando should have wiped the floor with him. What Hamilton really needs is a known winner (like Vettel) to be his teammate for a couple of seasons to really cement his place in history. Nico I like, and hope he eventually wins a WDC over Hamilton, but if they stay in the same team I don't ever see it for him. And therefore there will always be a question mark if Nico was ever really "that" good to start with.

 

Firstly welcome back.

Secondly exactly who was Senna "relatively" an inferior racer to ? Hamilton ? Fangio ? Prost ?

Lastly if you believe Hamilton is quicker than Schuey over a single lap, do a quick Google search re fastest lap standings.

Best,
Sammy

 

Thank you Sammy.

I would rank Prost, Schumacher and Clark as the best racers in f1. Hamilton alonso, senna etc on a tier below them. As mentioned earlier, senna dropped an average of 1.2 places per race against Prost. Fastest over a single lap would be senna in a league of his own then probably Hamilton and then Clark and Schumacher.

Fastest lap standings are irrelevant. Under the current regulations drivers are often disincentivezed from setting a fastest lap; you manage the gap to win not run flat out because you don't have unlimited components at your disposal.

Qualifying is the only telling metric, the sole objective always being to set the fastest time. I note Schumacher did better when qualy was 15+ laps than under current hot lap mode. He seemed to spin out a lot when pushing so having more chances certainly helped

 

I need a doctor, for some reason, I can't stop laughing......... Senna couldn't race, schumi wasn't fast........... OMG, what a lot of old rubbish being spouted by the obvious.....

someone needs to have a word with himself I think

 

Schumacher spinning out often in qualifying? What f1 videos did you actually buy to watch mate, I reckon they sold you fakes...... Schumacher was a devastating qualifier, well able to hold his own against anyone in those stakes.

 

Schumacher is good but not the god you think he is. Top 3-4 all time for sure but if you think he's gonna hop in a car and trounce the current top runners then you're wrong

 

Peak to peak, he'd bounce Elton all over the track, and would build enough of a lead to take on hamburgers and fries at a pitstop and still beat him lol

 

Well. The forum was quite a nice place the last month. In the toilet yet again.

 

I don't know where you are coming from with this. To say 'Schumi is Top 3 - 4 all time' and then claim he can't 'trounce the current top runners', none of which are Top 3 - 4 all time, and unlikely ever will be, is a massive contradiction.

Schumi's records are unlikely to ever be beaten, and even though it is hard to compare drivers across generations, I think we can all agree that Schumi would make any GOAT candidate list across any era of comparison. The same cannot, at this point in time, be said of any of today's drivers - and that includes Ham.

 

What he said!
Pete

 

Sigh...

 

Forum had a lot of competition from the Brazilian beach volleyball girls! guess who won?

 

Hola!!!!!

 

Sid,can you give me ur doc's contact ? i think i need help...

 

*sigh*

Just dont engage the nonsense

 

Yep. Time to return to the paid forums. See you later.

 

Me too, Sid, please give me the number.....

 

So these beach volley ball girls. Is anyone go a post footage or pics, or is it all just a tease! Haha