Thinking the unthinkable | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Thinking the unthinkable

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, Aug 20, 2016.

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  1. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,870
    Probably that will happen in a far future, but I won't be alive then.

    You still can ride a bycicle or a horse on public roads.
     
  2. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    8,089
    Tropical
    #52 Ferrari 308 GTB, Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
    Absolutely!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTogqrxec7U

    Do you have any idea how fast you were going Sir?
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,910
    #53 william, Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016


    Just.

    Out of urban areas, they tend to have their own paths here.

    I wouldn't fancy the chances of a cyclist or a horse rider sharing space with motor vehicles running at close to 90mph !!!

    BTW, there is at least 1 cyclist killed every month in the streets of London. Mixing cycles and motor vehicles isn't a good idea.
     
  4. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,870

    How many people gets killed in cars or motorbikes every month in London? Probably more than one.

    Let's remember that we're still quite far from having a commercial full automated car and human driven cars will coexist with autonomous vehicles for a long long time. And even then, I suppose that an exemption for vintage vehicles will exist. 100 years old cars are still allowed on public roads, despite not being compliant to any modern standards.

    That will be enough for me,I'm not so young to worry about what will happen with cars after that.
     
  5. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    107,268
    Vegas baby
    Indy cars is a spec series (basically). That's its problem. That and most of its races are on ovals where all you see is cars going around and around and around and around... Wake me when the white flag comes out, ok?

    Apples and oranges.


    Here's a clue: Where will F1 go from here?

    Answer: Where the money is.
     
  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,910
    Don't count on it!!

    Of course legislation varies from country to country, and even from some urban areas compared to the countryside.

    There are already proposals to ban older vehicles from some cities in Europe, based on their emission level. This is intended to spread across the whole of the countryside within years if the laws are passed.
    Paris already ban motorcycles made prior to 2000. By 2020, no combustion engine vehicles made after 2005 should be allowed in town, etc... If the pilot scheme works in Paris, already 8 major cities across Europe intend to follow.
    The Netherlands are examining a law banning the sale of combustion engine vehicles from 2025.

    Vintage and veteran car clubs in Europe have petitioned their legislators as you can imagine. Yes, some older vehicles could be allowed access to certain areas for display, parade, rallies, exhibitions, but NOT for regular use.
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,910

    Motor racing, almost from the beginning has been on ovals in the States, from boarded tracks to the Brickyard, tarmacked tracks to Daytona.

    Oval racing sustained big series like Sprint cars, Midgets, the Triple Crown, USAAC, CART, the IRL, NASCAR for 100 years of racing,- bar WWII.

    So I cannot see the ovals being the reasons for the disaffection of the public. This type of racing was devised to satisfy the American public who likes to see plenty of action from close, get near the drivers and follow races easy to understand. Well, everything F1 isn't!!
     
  8. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    107,268
    Vegas baby
    Today the Indy car race got rained out.

    That never happens in F1.

    Indy car suffers from this affliction to compete with Nascar on ovals. Nascar people will excuse a cancelled race. Indy car people just won't show up.
     
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,910
    So, do you think Indy car should abandon oval racing to NASCAR, and concentrate on road courses?

    But what about Indianapolis itself?
     
  10. WPOZZZ

    WPOZZZ F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2012
    6,508
    Honolulu, HI
    I am an old soul, and prefer to have the driver drive the car without computer aids. Nowdays, there are too many computer doodads in a race car. If one system goes belly up, you're done.
     
  11. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    107,268
    Vegas baby
    I do think Indy is unique and should always be in their schedule.

    But there are too many ovals on the calendar.

    I feel the same way about Monaco with F1. Yes, it's silly but it's unique and interesting and that's enough for good racing.
     
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,910
    +1

    Yes, Indy and Monaco must be preserved.
     
  13. SuperF

    SuperF Karting

    Jul 27, 2016
    164
    Philadelphia suburbs
    Full Name:
    Lou


    Dominance of Mercedes nowadays, Red Bull few years back, or Ferrari in the old days can't be the major cause of F1 viewing decline, since it seems to me that dominance of a team has often existed throughout the F1 history.
    I stopped viewing F1 in the mid 90's after I moved from Italy to USA. Then I started watching it again about 5 years ago, after 20 years. What struck me as a difference between now and the "old days" was the lack of serious accidents, I dare say even deaths, as well as lack of engine breakage.
    And yes, I get annoyed about Red Bull or Mercedes dominance; but for me - I don't get much excited because at the end I know no pilot is at great risk of getting hurt vs. the old days (I remember few heroes dying on live television), and I don't expect engine fires to be a wild card to allow surprises. This sport got too safe and reliable for its own good. There's no solution to this paradox.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. wax

    wax Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 20, 2003
    52,500
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    From Formula One to One Formula = Bleh.


    via Tapatalk
     
  15. dud

    dud Karting

    Apr 30, 2016
    201
    Boston
    I would like to establish the truth about a few supposed statements first:

    1) do the car manufacturers really demand that the F1 engines must be "like modern cars" or however they justify the prius drive? Do they actually?

    2) is the strict limit on testing actually benefitting the teams with less money? They are probably computered and simulated out by the bigger rivals. Maybe more live testing would allow them to make a better car cheaper?
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    43,090
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Mercedes (and Renault was on board) insisted that the current formula should happen (though at first with ''road relevant'' Inline 4s, but cilinder configuration didn't matter in the grand scheme of things) or ''they would leave''. They knew that Ferrari would spend far too much time *****ing about what sort of engines F1 should have whilst they perfected the technology. Their engine was finished a year before anyone.
     
  17. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,910

    There is that aspect to consider.

    There doesn't seem to be any risk anymore. Stirling Moss commented on that recently, saying that modern F1 would probably not appealed to him when he was young. Driving mistakes are of no consequences; the drivers are bulletproof. An excursion off track isn't a big deal anymore, like it was in the past. The cars are designed to jump kerbs (designed for that!!), when before suspension breakage was often the result of lack of precision.

    The functions on the cars are computer-managed, so the bugbears of the past - overheating, oil pressure drop, over-revs, slipping clutch, fuel starvation - are avoided by sensors and monitors taking action before mechanical breakage. The driver doesn't even have to check its dials; it's all done for him.

    F1 isn't raw anymore; it has been sanitised. Probably at the demand of the announcers and TV channels.
     
  18. SuperF

    SuperF Karting

    Jul 27, 2016
    164
    Philadelphia suburbs
    Full Name:
    Lou


    +1


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    So have road cars. In the process they have become incredibly boring. No wonder the younger generation are not interested. Bug FAIL by manufacturers IMO.
    Pete
     
  20. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,478
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    How to make F1 more exciting? Throw away the current rules and stupid green ideas and rewrite it again. Fans will flock the races and tv.
     
  21. Jeronimo GTO

    Jeronimo GTO Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 15, 2010
    2,226
    Applying those "green ideas" on F1 was/is indeed very stupid... and where is the noise of the engines?

    IMO a (complete) lack of character of the modern circuits is also a main contributing factor to F1's decline.
     
  22. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,910
    You are not wrong there.

    It seems to me that the powers are afraid of speed and want to keep lap time down.

    So, no long straights anymore, and plenty of chicanes. The way they have butchered Monza, Silverstone and Hockenheim is just an example.

    New modern circuits look like over-grown go-kart track.
     
  23. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    "No risk and circuits with a loss of character?" You are spot-on! Take this to its ridiculous conclusion and you have, what? SENSORS IN THE TRACK to declare when the track limits have been violated!!!! Really? How about a frigging gravel pit to determine that. You go in the gravel & get stuck ... race over! Think that will let drivers know when they have exceeded the track limits?
    The powers that run F-1 (and/or the FIA) are so idiotic it's amazing they can breathe when they are asleep.
     
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,910

    +1
     
  25. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Brian
    Good racing comes from way more HP than the cars need, no aero, no driver aids, it could be a one make engine (or almost), one tire, series......oh wait!

    This would be good ol sprint cars, on a 1 mile dirt track or even the 1/4 mile bullrings that provide edge of seat entertainment start to finish almost nightly across US. Growing fan bases and payouts up to $50K to win show their popularity and some drivers get picked to move up to Indycar and Nascar series.
     

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