F1 to manual

^^^^^^^
Hey a good old reference to the infamous 'KROME' 355 with the gas tank up front. (wonder what happened to his car?)

Im not sure how "bastardizing" applies either.

If i was to cover up the F1 Fluid plaque in the engine bay, hide the window sticker... and you inspected the care top and bottom, you would not be able to tell an anyway shape or form this was an former F1 car.

 

I used the term "bastardized" only in reference to a future sale. Again, It's not my car so I don't care what is done. My posts are about value (if converted) and technical details. As I said earlier, paint the car pink - non of my business

 

Only later cars don't have the bung - my F1 has it and the sender.

 

You need a different ECU as well.

The physical swap is pretty easy. Something a guy could do in a weekend.

The number one issue with the F1 system in our old cars are the connector blocks. Electrical connections during an engine out can get knockered about. Ask me how I know. I removed a gold connector set to fix my last set of issues

 

Mine has the original F1 ECU

 

It's wrong.

172859 = 6 speed
174846 = F1

 

It's more than obvious it's not required. It may have extra functions that are not being used.
I believe the actual F1 trans had upgraded/stronger shifter forks than the manual. Should I remove the stronger F1 parts and install the weaker ones?

Let's not get silly

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The F1 ECU (Motronic) CAN be used after the swap to stick and clutch. The ECU merely cuts fuel (or spark, can't recall which) during F1 upshifts. Since this situation doesn't exist once the car has a full manual setup, the ECU never has to cut power for upshifts. But the basic Motronic functions are otherwise the same, so the car would NOT need a new ECU. Notice that this would be a bid deal if one were to try to convert a stick car to F1-- would need to change the ECU in that instance.

I had a long series of issues with my F1 system, and frankly shared much of my troubles here. I was very very close to converting my car to a stick. The parts from a salvage yard can be had for $2-3k, the labor could be another $3-4k. In the end, I stuck it out, changed shops, and found someone who could properly solve my problem.

And, it could be that the bleeding process required after a major service could have pushed a failing pump over the edge. That may be why the pump failed right after service. 360 pump conversion is well-documented here, and very cost-effective. Further, once the 360 pump conversion is done, the electric motor alone can be easily changed at home for cheap if the new pump fails.

I have recently replaced my 360 pump motor at home, for $400 total, after putting 30k miles on the last one. Remember, it's just an electric motor, which will fail eventually. Ferrari's initial mistake was simply to make the whole pump/motor/accumulator/octopus assembly as one unit, to be replaced when any of the above components fail. Any decent shop should be able to swap only the component needed, so the days of $16k parts bills should be behind us, thankfully.

Nonetheless, enjoy your car. Personally, I would save all the F1 parts because it really is a reversible decision as long as you have all the parts stored in a tupperware box.

 

OK guys, I was bored

See attached list (partial)

I think I got most of it - I'm sure I missed some.

Next time I'm bored I'll add the prices. Most certainly some of this stuff can be purchased used and as sub-assemblies. But, if buying the pedal box new - it's like $9K alone.

To the OP - I'm sure the dealer is using used parts especially since some of these are NLA
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This thread has made for some interesting reading and sometimes I had to laugh while at other times I felt like crying.
Ive been around the 355 for a long time and know the car pretty well and I would never have made this conversion. I would have fixed the F1 properly and if I wanted a 3 pedal car, then I would have sold the F1 and bought the other. Yes I know the OP likes his car a lot but I'm sure if he could have found a beautiful 6 speed as well. This poor car will never ever command the same price as an original 6 speed. If anyone doubts this, just imagine being in the market and when standing beside a potential buy, the seller tells you..."Oh yeh just wanted to tell you that this was once an F1 car". You would get in your car and never look back. Now I know that the OP says that he will keep the car forever....Yes but not just because he loves it. He may have no choice but to keep it. But the main thought that comes to mind is that this car will never ever run right unless the conversion was done by factory trained mechanics. Anyway, I do wish the OP all the luck in the world with his car.

 

Well done sir

 

Just done on a 575M by professionals. Cost $31,000. Thread in that forum. Probably cheaper next time around.
Done on a 360 by an owner who did all his own work using new and used parts. ~$6K with no labor charges.

The seals on the throw-out bearing need to be changed from the ones for F1 fluid (synthetic ATF essentially) to ones compatible with brake fluid. Might work for a little while without changing, but eventually she will leak someplace you do not want leaks. Transaxles are essentially the same except for a few plugs where F1 sensors were located, even though parts numbers may be different.

Process is actually easier on a 5.2 F355 because there are so many 3 pedals out there and parts are much easier to find. Same with 360s, with 4700+ 3 pedals out there. Tough on 575Ms because there were only 246 3 pedals out of 2064 total, but 550 (3083 total) parts fit in some places, like the shifter, clutch, etc. On the Motronic 7.3 and 7.1.1 Ferraris, you need two new manual shift Motronic ECUs. Not sure about the F355 and 5.2.

 

I agree 100%. Keep all of the original parts. If there comes a time where these cars command a lot more money, you could return it back to stock. If you wanted to convert it back, you would have to source all the F1 parts again and probably pay a lot more than you could get by just keeping them.

 

Both the F1 and the manual trans TO bearings have teflon seals, teflon is compatible and recommended with both DEXIII F1 fluid and hydraulic brake fluid. There are no long term seal issues.

eFunda: O-Ring Materials Compatibile with Chemical Automatic Transmission Fluid
eFunda: O-Ring Materials Compatibile with Chemical Brake Fluid

 

I guess Ferrari didn't have access to Google when they spec'd the two different annular bearings. There are other differences, just sayin'

 

Blimey - Reading the reaction of some in this thread, with accusations of "bastardising" your car, anyone would think you've taken the Ferrari engine out the back and fitted a small block chevy motor in the front!

Some of us understand your thinking cavello - Especially in light of the fact that Ferrari have never carried many spares for their cars (If they bother at all! - How many other manufacturers force you to buy an entire door mirror assembly when all you need is the mirror glass replacing?) , and the support for older cars is beyond poor!

I think you're right to hang onto your original F1 gearbox parts - Not to refit to your own car though!

In another ten~20 years or so the owners of the F1 cars who are slating you right now will be desperate for parts in order to preserve their cars in an "un-bastardized" condition and will have to pay through the nose for them! - After all, as you have already noted, as the F1 cars get older and older, they're hardly going to become more and more reliable, and the parts supply is hardly likely to get more and more plentiful!

As for the future value of your car (With a full understanding that the future value is of no interest to you whatsoever BTW) : Certain prospective buyers who get up their own arses about originality and the spec that the car left the factory in, might get their knickers in a twist about it, but the vast majority of prospective buyers wouldn't give a rats rectum about it, especially when it was explained to them the reasons for the conversion.

Have your car how you want it, to please yourself - And boll:censored:ks to those who have a problem with it!

Enjoy your car!

 

You are very wise, I don't think you will regret keeping those parts.

By the way I can't remember any threads on the manual transmissions, and I have been on this forum for a long time. I am not saying that the F1 isn't a bad system, but can be more problematic than the manual, even if some of the problems aren't expensive.

 

^^^^This^^^^

From a guy with experience that knows more than we do....

My list of parts was maybe 70%. I did not dive hard into the clutch / gearbox or steering parts as the difference would have taken hours to go through.

Again, certainly some parts would not require changing and some subassemblies can be purchased used, but to do this with new parts would cost a crazy amount.

There are plenty of qualified techs who could have easily fixed your F1 issues, unfortunately you did not use one of those.

With that said - did Continental ever diagnose the F1 issues and provide a cost to fix or did you just tell them to convert? My apologies if I missed it prior..

 

Apologies for this post as I reviewed OP's posts again and see he was having clutch done also - I originally thought it was just engine work

 

I just roll the windows down.