car design thread

Are they claiming that the Eldo Brouham is an Italian design? I thought it was just a Pf build of a GM design. It certainly was the advance look at the 1961 design.

 

Where is this available?

 

Hey John,
My daughter is currently looking at colleges, and an interesting stat is the percentage of applicants accepted. Some of the schools have an acceptance rate of 5% and they obviously go up from there. While researching I thought I would check Art Centers acceptance rate.......ready for this? 80.9%!!! It's like a Community College.
(CCS is 48.6%, a far more typical %)

 

In our time it was supposed to be 1 in 3 made it through/survived to the end.

 

According to the U.S.News college database, 31% 4 year graduation rate.

 

Also funny in the U.S.News info is that the most popular majors are "visual and performing arts"!
"I got my BS in Performance Automotive Design"
I like the sound of that.

 

I always thought of the Art Center degree being called "Transportation Design" was a misnomer. More accurate was "got a degree in Draw Cars". Also, they called it a Bachelor of Science because we had to take one class in Human Factors and one in Aerodynamics.

 

We had an automotive engineering class but no aerodynamics and no human factors.
Eric Robison, who went on to become a big time Disney designer/artist, was in my engineering class and every week, without fail, he would start the class by raising his hand and asking "why do I need to know this stuff?" but with a little more vocabulary flair.

 

Fabulous rendering effort to build that interior space. Sure wish they had of spent as much effort designing a cohesive exterior.

"progressive, urban audience living in a connected environment". Guess they missed the irony of the Scion division defining their appeal to market for their box that actually sold to a completely different group. Way too much effort thinking inside padded rooms.

 

Question: I was at BMW National Sales office last week and had to go thru their 'Culture Training Day'. The trainer said they were one of the 'last' company still doing hand sketches and clay modeling for their products, that most of the other auto manufacturers were doing their design via computer design then strait to other forms of models. They claim the clay is the only way to keep the design pure and warm.

I find that hard to believe or are they clay shapers on the way out?

 

Everybody uses clay. Some studios do a lot less hand modeling of the clay then they used to.

 

My apologies for the delay in response here. I've actually been really looking forward to getting stuck into this debate. So, here goes (remember I've no design training).

Going to pick a few out of sequence:

Packaging:

Austin Mini - agreed. I think it also helped that the Mini did pretty well in rally, the tiny and nimble packaging proving itself in motorsport got it off to a good start. It was a great design that endured essentially unchanged for decades before being replaced by the MINI (R50/R53).

Bentley Continental - I'll put this one in the packaging one, because I'm assuming you're talking about the GT and I was astonished to see how big it is in person. It looks a lot smaller in photographs on the computer and when you actually see one in real life it's enormous for a 2-door GT. It could also go in the Shape/Aesthetics category though, since it seems to have quite a reserved external appearance - sporty yet understated. I really like the Bentley Continental GT.

Porsche 911 - definitely in the packaging category. It really seems to do its own thing with the engine hanging way out behind it. I can certainly appreciate it as an iconic sports car, but I don't know how much you could say it really influenced other designs, since nobody else really copies Porsche's layout with the 911 today. They really carved out their own niche and I can't think of any other cars that were inspired by the Porsche 911. I guess I agree with Jeff here in that it's in its own self-contained world.​

Shape/Aesthetics:

Giugiaro Asso di XX - honestly, I'd not heard of these cars previously. The Asso di Picche's very flat bonnet/hood made me think of a 2+2 variant of a Lanica Stratos without the aggressively flared wheel arches. As the Lancia Stratos HF Prototype was released at the 1971 Turin Motor Show, could Italdesign Giugiaro have been said to have been following Bertone to some extent? It does seem to have helped to kick off some of the wedge-designs, although again Bertone seemed to get there before Italdesign Guigiaro with the very wedge-like Lancia Stratos Zero in 1970, as did Pininfarina with the Ferrari Modulo in the same year. Before any of those guys though, there was the Alfa Romeo Carabo. Admittedly, Italdesign Guigiaro does seem to have been amongst the first to apply it to more than a 2-seater mid-engined sportscar.

VW Golf/Rabbit - not sure on this one as a packaging entry, which is why I put it here. It is iconic, but had this car been unreliable and/or expensive, perhaps it would not have been remembered so fondly. A lot of people that rave about the Golf praise its toughness, dependability, straightforward maintenance, and reasonable level of performance, rather than get particularly excited about new packaging, which seemed to be a logical (larger) extension of the Mini. I agree with John in that it does look like the first of the cars to apply the folded paper designs to a small affordable hatchback and most hatchbacks to follow for many years followed the same guidelines.

Mitchell's Stingray racer - epic. Great-looking car and does seem to have influenced future Corvettes (and rival sportscars). The evolution into the C2 and C3 Stingrays is fantastic.

Chrysler/Lamborghini Portofino - the first I've seen anything of this one! Very sleek and futuristic looking. I'm astonished that was in the 1980s.

Citroen DS19 - I can see a little bit of Porsche 911 in the front end and front fenders. Perhaps this is where Ferdinand Porsche got the headlight arrangement from when trying to move from the Beetle to the 911?

1961 Ford Continental - are the strong front fender lines that extend down the front of the car making a comeback? I can see a lot in present Cadillac production cars that seem to hark back to that. For example, the 2016 CT6 or 2016 CTS-V.

Range Rover - From your last link, John. I could agree here, as the Range Rover and other enormous luxury SUVs have become ubiquitous. They're seen as a symbol of wealth and status over here in the UK, at least in the areas I've lived. Often, the first thing a newly contracted professional soccer player will do with their newfound wealth is to go out and buy either a Range Rover or a Bentley Continental GT... or both. ​

Engineering:

Audi 5000/NSU RO80 - was the flush glass more for aesthetics or was this the first time people were thinking seriously about aerodynamic drag?​

Might I suggest a recent car that wasn't mentioned?

SmartCar ForTwo - there's not really anything else packaged quite like this. I've owned two of them and they are amazing as small parkable cars in congested European cities. Absolutely no need for them in the United States though. I laughed at them when I first saw them in magazines, but when you actually use them they are quite utilitarian little cars with well-thought out design features such as the folding rear gate and tall seating position. I could complain about the engineering and cost of maintenance if you use the Mercedes dealer networks, but find a good independent specialist garage and they're fantastic. The early ones had a unique feel to drive them too, though they tried to refine them in the MkII and MkIII models, losing some of their charm and all of their looks. I would argue that the SmartCar influenced small city cars and showed that there was a demand for ultra-tiny cars, bringing in such competitors as the Toyota IQ, Fiat 500, and Audi A1. Although, the SmartCar ForTwo is in something of a niche in that it's the only really tiny 2-seater city car and the only one you can park perpendicularly to the curb (the party trick). Had Mercedes not changed the aesthetics so fundamentally between MkII and MkIII, I could have seen the SmartCar continuing with a very Mini-like cult following. They lacked the discipline to stick to the size (for the party trick parking) and aesthetics (for the cult), although I can see why they made it bigger and evolved the aesthetics to try to reflect the rest of the Mercedes line.​

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Andrew,

I welcome your comments and the effort to put the pictures together.

The attempt to get the wedge into car design goes back to the Lotus 72 F1 car.

When I point to the "Asso di" it was about a series of cars Giugaro did as he kept working/refining the theme. The particular photo you used for the Audi does a great job of demonstrating just how much curve there is in Guigaro's straight line - look at that front fender character line fore/aft curve as well as the plan view.

I would move the Continental GT into aesthetics. As a package it is an old school American coupe - think a Continental Mark III. It is the throwback to what both the Eldo and Mark wandered away from: an unapologetic large personal luxo coupe. As an aesthetic it made a modern statement of that type.

On the Lincoln Continental I think what you are missing is how the fender peak is completely continuous from the front bumper to the rear. No other lines are vying for attention. The body side is even smooth; possibly too smooth. This was a complete and total repudiation of the end of the 1950s aesthetic of adding surface excitement and detail upon detail. As for Ford Design it was also a revelation as it was clearly not their "camel" approach/built by committee.

I believe that the Ro 80 is significant as it was an aesthetic driven by aero. Se how the nose goes around the corner to the fender; not nose then side.

Interesting comments about the original Smart. Yes, it was interesting to see them parked 90 degrees to the curb. Significant that someone finally did a city car although the concept had been running around in various show cars since at least 1970.

Jeff
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But they can't just talk design in lieu of the sketching. Do that and one gets to look like Jim Hall at GM.

Here is the Medusa. Done at a time when Giugaro was still doing folded paper for most projects this had a very different cross section. Listed as a 1979 project with a 1980 first showing.
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